Water in my 1996 406 pls help!

[406owner2]

Diagram layout on relay cover.

[406owner2]

i connected my charger to the plug as in the photo below,
no go, it did not switch on, then i put a 12v little brushless motor
on terminals as shown in the pic, nrs one and 5.

of all the combinations i tried, that was the only combination i found power
from only when the ign is on, however i guess it must've been only 5 or 8 volts on the pump plug in the car, because the little brushless motor turned very weakly.

when i put the motor on my pc 12 v supply it really came to life. so i guess 5 or 8 volts on the pump plug in the car, because the little brushless motor turned very weakly. ?

So now, can i hook up 12v battery to the pump to see if it works on those same terminals shown in the pic ?

Is there a fuse between the relay and lift pump also ?

Please people talk to me it's eerily quiet hahaha... i need to go take a break now so tired... Thanks so much for the help so far...it feels like i'm making progress..!

[steve_earwig]

Sorry sorry, things to do, people to see, you know how it is...

i connected my charger to the plug as in the photo below,
no go, it did not switch on, then i put a 12v little brushless motor
on terminals as shown in the pic, nrs one and 5.

of all the combinations i tried, that was the only combination i found power
from only when the ign is on, however i guess it must've been only 5 or 8 volts on the pump plug in the car, because the little brushless motor turned very weakly.

NOOOO! That's almost certainly the feed to your fuel level gauge, if you apply 12 volts to that you'll burn your car!

transistor thingies

Relays.

There are two, one does the fuel pump and the ignition coil, the other does engine management. I don't know if it primes first, I suspect not if the ignition coil is on the same feed, but it might wait until the engine is spinning at a good speed before it closes the contact.

[lozz]

if your trying to feed the fuel pump with power.
disconnect the leads on the car battery.

and don't be bridging into any of the cars wiring it can feed back and destroy other parts of the electricals if done wrong As steve above is trying to point out


you will need atleast 9v to power a pump.

(!!remember sparks and fuel vapours don't mix!! so think about what your doing and the risks that go with it,))

[406owner2]

Sorry sorry, things to do, people to see, you know how it is...

i connected my charger to the plug as in the photo below,
no go, it did not switch on, then i put a 12v little brushless motor
on terminals as shown in the pic, nrs one and 5.

of all the combinations i tried, that was the only combination i found power
from only when the ign is on, however i guess it must've been only 5 or 8 volts on the pump plug in the car, because the little brushless motor turned very weakly.

NOOOO! That's almost certainly the feed to your fuel level gauge, if you apply 12 volts to that you'll burn your car!

What i meant was putting the 12 volts to the connection of the pump itself, not the wire feed coming from the engine. where you see the 2 wires on the plug as indicated in my picture, i'm thinking of putting 12 volts on the actual fuel pump in the corresponding places on the pump, not the connector coming from the ignition source.

There are two, one does the fuel pump and the ignition coil, the other does engine management. I don't know if it primes first, I suspect not if the ignition coil is on the same feed, but it might wait until the engine is spinning at a good speed before it closes the contact.

You say prime, i mentioned earlier i used to hear a 3 seconds whistle that i'm not hearing now "to pressurize the fuel line" i assume.

No one ever replied to my comment wrt to that.
I assume almost certain that must be the primer sound ? is the primer a whole different mechanism, or is it the fuel pump that does this ?

[406owner2]

if your trying to feed the fuel pump with power.
disconnect the leads on the car battery.

and don't be bridging into any of the cars wiring it can feed back and destroy other parts of the electricals if done wrong As steve above is trying to point out


you will need atleast 9v to power a pump.

(!!remember sparks and fuel vapours don't mix!! so think about what your doing and the risks that go with it,))

Thanks Lozz i will be careful, fabricating a connector first with a long lead to a seperate 12v lithium battery, connecting the lead first to the pump, and then the other end of the lead to the battery, so if there will be spark, it will be at the battery side, outside and away from the car, i don't smell any fuel either.

What i need to know is, should i connect the 12v wires as described ie from the photo in brs one and 5 corresponding to the fuel pump of course, (obviously this makes sense, but just to be clear...i'm not going to stick 12 volts into the fuel pump lead because it's not connected to the fuel pump and will blow my electronics as mentioned by Steve)

[lozz]

No one ever replied to my comment wrt to that.
I assume almost certain that must be the primer sound ? is the primer a whole different mechanism, or is it the fuel pump that does this ?

idid,

this is why imentioned looking for inertia cut off switch under bonnet -rember?

if you carnt hear no noise from pump underthe back seat it isn't working.
and inertia switch may be the cause.

[lozz]

What i need to know is, should i connect the 12v wires as described ie from the photo in brs one and 5 corresponding to the fuel pump of course, (obviously this makes sense, but just to be clear...i'm not going to stick 12 volts into the fuel pump lead because it's not connected to the fuel pump and will blow my electronics as mentioned by Steve)[/quote]

That sounds like it shouid work,

[406owner2]

No one ever replied to my comment wrt to that.
I assume almost certain that must be the primer sound ? is the primer a whole different mechanism, or is it the fuel pump that does this ?

idid,

this is why imentioned looking for inertia cut off switch under bonnet -rember?

if you carnt hear no noise from pump underthe back seat it isn't working.
and inertia switch may be the cause.

O sorry Lozz, excuse my ignorance, i did not think the answer was relevant to the question i posed, however you guys are sharper than me and assumed i would know hahaha.. thank you for that !

So it's the fuel pump that makes the primer sounds also then i assume from your reply thanks.

[lozz]

What iwouid do is open bonnet first
and have alook for that switch, thats if it has one,. if it does it shouid be a square thing push it downwards ( located (passenger side UK side) -suspension area,}
then try ignition see if pump works,

you need this pump working 1st thing as once petrol/water is out you will still have same problem to sort
so you may as well sort this 1st and it will be less hastle for you if get what im saying ?

[lozz]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4197&p=39584&hilit= ... tch#p39593

[406owner2]

Thanks Lozz, no i did locate the inetria button and pressed it, mentioned this earlier, but it did not work, it's located under a black "boot" i assume protecting it from water. i pressed it down, it was like a spring button, like on those old arcade game machines at the arcades, i did not hear any clicking noises.

So this is why my next step would be to try and see if the pump works, however judging from the volts i'm getting from the ign to the pump, i assume it's the relay or a fuse ?

Is there any way to properly test the relay, to see if i can get the second relay mechanism to click when outside of the car ?

Otherwise i'll try test the pump first while you guys can perhaps think of why i'm not getting 12v to the pump from ign....?

Just to make double sure:

My next step now is then then is fabricating a connector putting 12v on nrs 1 and 5 on the pump itself as mentioned above.

What are the other 2 connections on the pump for ? nr 2 and 4 (nr3 is blank on connector as can see per photo)

[lozz]

2 wires are for the pump
and the other two are for the fuel guage sender,

the fuel pump and fuel gauge/sender - is all one combined unit,

ihope that makes sense,

also check this fuse in engine bay see pic,

fuelpump fuse.PNG

[steve_earwig]

My next step now is then then is fabricating a connector putting 12v on nrs 1 and 5 on the pump itself as mentioned above.

How can I put this in a more easy-to-understand way?

RISK OF DEATH

Is that clearer? As lozz says there are two things on the end of that connector, one is the pump and the other is the fuel level sender. Fuel level gauges work on a lower voltage (and current) so I'd think, no, I'm certain that this is what you found with the brushless motor. They usually consist of either a wire-wound variable resistor or carbon track variable resistor. Applying 12 volts to this will result in it glowing white hot and burning out, which will ignite any petrol vapour in the fuel tank.

Can you read any of the codes on the wires to this connector?

[406owner2]

Thanks Steve... ok i'd rather be safe and be double sure, so what follows will be the best i can describe it... just hold a sec while i get pic or 2 up... thanks so much...