Water in my 1996 406 pls help!

[406owner2]

Will it blow the pump if the 2 are swopped or just reverse the fuel flow ?
(i'm also guessing it being the middle 2 for the wires are thicker gauge as well to handle bigger volts ? so 2 and 4. ?)

5 i know is positive and 1 i know is negative, because the little brushless motor worked on those pins.

I'm about to go and check for a meter, going to all the shops out there so going to take some time, i hop e i can get something very cheap. Thank you guys so much for the help so far.

[lozz]

it will just reverse the flow,

id think as itd just send motor in wrong direction,

Have you got any bulbs anywhere with two wires on?

[steve_earwig]

Just a quick Q - where are you? What's the air temperature where you are?

[406owner2]

Thanks Lozz and Steve

I am in the jhb area... temp now i figure is about 25- 27 degree Celsius, however
the day the pump seized to work there had been an unusually strange storm, it's as if we were covered in a cloud, whilst raining also, thats when i tried to start the car and it would not. lots of temp changes on this hill where i am.

I got a multimeter, shown in pic below, please bare with me i never used one before however think i got the first bit right, please correct me if required, this is what i did:

I put the multimeter on the nr 20 option as shown in picture below to give a volt reading.

Then i put the + and - terminals on nrs 1 and 5 of the plug
doesn't matter if i changes the + and -terminals of the meter it
reads a voltage of between 5.12 and 5.13 either way on 1 and 5 of the plug.

i get the same reading of 5.12 and 5.13 when i have the terminals on nrs 5 and 4.

I get a reading of 0.1 on nrs 2 and 4. (the 2 thick wires)

Now keep in mind i did this test with the relay connected, ign on (without entering immob code, not sure if that makes a difference)

I repeated the test without the relay and i get the same readouts except with the relay i once got a reading from 0.3 descending to 0.1 as if it's losing volts on nrs 2 and 4 on the pump plug, not sure if this is just something one needs to just ignore, i guess probably ?

Do i need to change the multimeter setting ? it's on (volts) at the moment on the 20 setting as indicated below.

[lozz]

you need the imob code in before it will supply fuel or volts to fuel pump

[406owner2]

Usually i hear the 3 second whistle/burst that pressurizes the fuel line without entering the code, so by that i would say that the code is not needed.

[lozz]

Weird normaly an imobiliser cuts fuel pump,

butis it still worth a try putting code in ? and see what happens.. nowt to loose.


is Battery on car good?
fully charged ?

[406owner2]

Perhaps the code cause the pump to work as one is cranking or the car is running,

But normally definitely hear the primer/whistle sound upon ignition without needing to enter the code, could it be that the primer is something different or is it the car pump that pressurizes the fuel line ?

Car battery is fully charged.

I don't know what to do from here,

should i:

Connect a 12 volt lithium ion battery to pins 2 and 4, to see if the pump runs, just need to know which one is + and which one is -

Or, manually push down the relay that is not clicking upon ignition and see what it does (if it will indeed work if i do that should the relay not be entirely smoked ? )

I have located which pins is relative to which relay powering the pump it is Pins 1,2,9,10 and 11 and the relay relevant to those pins does not activate upon ignition.

Does the car have a separate primer pressurizing the fuel line or does the pump only do it, if the car does not have a primer then pins 1,2,9,10 should activate upon ignition for the pump to make the 3 second whistle noise correct ? Meaning both relays need to click upon ignition ?

So the second option then to manually push down the relay that is not clicking upon ignition and see what it does (if it will indeed work if i do that should the relay not be entirely smoked ? )

Or do something with the inertia switch...?

if i do push down that relay manually with a stick, do you think there would be any risk of blowing something ?

[406owner2]

Pushed down the relay with a stick while ign is on, nothing happening, is there a substitute relay i can try somewhere else on the car ?

[steve_earwig]

Hello, I'm back! I came home from picking the wife up yesterday afternoon to find no internet (or IPTV) again It didn't come back until this morning (and the Brits complain about British Telecom )

I am in the jhb area... temp now i figure is about 25- 27 degree Celsius,

Thanks for that, it was just that I wasn't sure where you were so I checked your IP and it came up Norway (you have something running to hide your IP?) and it occurred to me that it's cold there, water freezes...

I got a multimeter, shown in pic below

Looks like a good one to me, well done, I hope it wasn't too expensive. I have a Fluke myself (v. expensive) which I seem to use constantly.

I put the multimeter on the nr 20 option as shown in picture below to give a volt reading.

20 volt range - that's cool, the most you're likely to see on a car is about 13 volts so anything that covers that is fine. The 1000 volt range would too but it's not going to be as accurate.

Then i put the + and - terminals on nrs 1 and 5 of the plug
doesn't matter if i changes the + and -terminals of the meter it
reads a voltage of between 5.12 and 5.13 either way on 1 and 5 of the plug.

i get the same reading of 5.12 and 5.13 when i have the terminals on nrs 5 and 4.

I get a reading of 0.1 on nrs 2 and 4. (the 2 thick wires)

From those diagrams:
1 - Sender earth
2 - pump + supply
3 - nothing
4 - pump earth
5 - sender to gauge

1+5 will be the sender voltage between its earth and the voltage coming from the gauge (btw the meter will automatically change from + to - depending which way around you connect it)
5+4 will be the same voltage but this time between the voltage coming from the gauge and the earth for the pump.
2+4 should be the pump supply and earth but obviously there's nothing there (it'll never be exactly zero as the wiring in the car picks up stray current from the environment)

I repeated the test without the relay and i get the same readouts except with the relay i once got a reading from 0.3 descending to 0.1 as if it's losing volts on nrs 2 and 4 on the pump plug, not sure if this is just something one needs to just ignore, i guess probably ?

Probably, unless you can duplicate it. I'd be more interested if it was over a volt though.

Looking at the diagram in Haynes (god help us ), tracing the wires I get:
1 - coil pack supply
2 - supply from ignition switch
3 - not connected

9 - positive supply to pump
10 - "switch on" from engine ecu
11 - positive supply from battery via fuse 1

Which compares favourably with the diagram on the relay you posted (phew!).

Pressing the relay with a stick (we'll make an engineer out of you yet ) should have powered up the pump, so I'm thinking there is no supply on pin 11 as above (or the relay is indeed fried) What you could do is pull the relay off of the connector again, carefully find the connector for pin 11 and put the red probe on this and the black one to a good earth (you might be able to reach the negative - on the battery from there) with the range again on 20 volts switch on the ignition and see if anything is there.

Btw I take it you have some plan to stop the pump forcing water into your injection system in case it should suddenly spring to life while we're doing this?

[406owner2]

Good morning Steve !

I'm so glad you're back !

haha our Internet not any better this side i can promise you, i'm on broadband
and my isp is running out of bandwidth compared to the amount of users subscribed. (fierce competition between rivals pushes prices down saturating the user base)

Norway ? ? haha... strange.. i'm in SA, probably the isp doing this...? i'm using opera and the only thing i did was disable java so i can save on bandwidth.

Thanks for explaining the multimeter ! with your guidance i can see this being a very useful piece of equipment, got it for around i would say 7 "pounds" in British currency. to my surprise. (R 89.) at mica hardware store.

Thank you for all that information and detail, this is helping a lot !

I have tested pin nr 11 as you said, positive feeler on pin 11 on relay plug and negative feeler on battery negative, and i'm getting 12.12-12.13v from it.

Further, i did the following:

Need to read and look at pictures below combined to understand.

Please read careful, if i don't describe clear enough please tell me so i can try again, i'm not always the best in describing things haha..

I'm going to try describe the best i can what i did: (excuse the caps it's just to emphasize and make it clearer for myself to explain)

On the WORKING relay i put the multimeter feelers on the parts encircled below in the picture WHILE the relay is CONNECTED to the plug
I get a reading of 11.89 volts.

What i also did was try and cheat the working relay (i placed an object inside the mechanical part that is suppose to click, to forcefully stop it from clicking when i turn on the ignition.

After doing this, i still get a reading of +-11.80 volts when putting the feelers on the exact same spot below the working relay as shown in the picture below.


Now on the NON WORKING relay when i place the feelers like shown in picture below i get no voltage underneath the NON-WORKING relay, sometimes just giving a reading of 0.3v which i guess is not to be taken seriously ?)

Whether or not i force the NON-WORKING relay close or open, i get the same reading of between 0 and 0.3v underneath the non working relay as shown in picture below.

So given the information you have just given me and i have just provided you, what do you think i should do next ?

[406owner2]

Update:

I tested the "suspected" broken relay by putting 11.40 volts on pins 2 and 10, the relay closed, Does this fully rule out the possibility of it being broken ?

[406owner2]

Another update:

i'm getting 11.95v on pin 10 of the relay plug in the car with ign on (positive feeler on 10 and negative feeler on battery negative terminal)

[steve_earwig]

7 pounds is excellent, I don't think a spark plug for my lawnmower is that cheap

Pin 10 is the "switch on" from the ecu the relay should close now.

I've been squinting away at your pictures for a while now and I think I've figured out how they're connected:

I think you've been testing on the feed from pin 10 so I'm not sure why you got no voltage there (maybe this is the problem) I have no idea what the other terminal is as it's connected through from the other side of the pcb.

Pin 11, the supply from fuse 1, is connected through to the three points I have marked with a "+" and pins 1 & 9 (for the pump and ignition coils) connect through to the pin marked with a "p". When the relay is switched on the + should be joined through to the p.

You could try testing these points but it's beginning to look like the relay is dead

[steve_earwig]

Just a thought: I wonder if it would be worth resoldering the points 1, 9 and p