Diesel just isn't diesel.

[Bailes1992]

I get funny looks in BP. I've contemplated why a few times. Maybe it's my teapot stance? I outright refuse to lean up against the car. May be because after work on a Friday I tend to look like a right scruffy 21 year old and I drive a brown Mondeo? But I'm now pretty sure it's the fact I pay an extra 5ppl for my diesel.

I've had conversations with many people about the fuel I run my car on. I run my car on BP Ultimate Diesel. People tend to think I'm wasting my money and a little insane. The latter may be so but I've come to the conclusion diesel isn't just diesel.

My car is very funny about biodiesel content. Unfortunately the EU now says that diesel can have 7% Biodeisel content even though the British Standard says diesel should contain 5%.
My car drives perfect on any diesel that has 5% bio content, and why shouldn't it? 5% is the British Standard and a standard to which my car was designed to accept. Issue is many garages and most supermarkets seem to be using 7% Bio.

So what happens if I fill my car up with a diesel that contains 7% bio? The car hesitates, becomes loud, becomes coarse, it drinks fuel and on the motorway it can judder for a split second when you put your foot on the accelerator. Overall ruining the driveability of my usually silky smooth Lynx lump!

I've tried many fuels and the car is fine on Tesco, Esso, BP standard & ultimate, Shell V-Power and Gulf diesel.
My car drives like an absolute pig on Asda, Morrisons, Sainsburys, Texaco standard & supreme and Shell Fuel Save diesel.

So what about the diesels my car can run on?

A full tank of BP Ultimate (75 Litres) will yield me 1000miles of range. That's about 60mpg.
I cannot match this sort of economy on anything but BP Ultimate and Shell V-Power diesel.

To try save money I have recently been running my car on Tesco diesel. I've done it for about 10,000miles. The car drove fine on plain diesel but the car lost it's responsiveness and drank it like it was going out of fashion. One week I managed 40mpg. 40!
I have tried to mix two stroke oil with the diesel, I have tried millers ecomax and tried Flashlube Diesel conditioner. 3 additives that come highly recommended.
All 3 restored a little performance and raised the economy but only by 3-5mpg, this means it still works out more expensive per mile than BP Ultimate. I'm lucky to get 750miles out of the same tank.

The good news is I just had £5 in Tesco clubcard vouchers.
The bad news is I still have half a tank of Tesco diesel to drink before I can go and fill back up in BP.

[trufflehunt]

I believe the owners handbook for Mk3 Mondeos states .. not to use more than 5% biodiesel.
Is yours the same?

[Bailes1992]

I believe the owners handbook for Mk3 Mondeos states .. not to use more than 5% biodiesel.
What does yours say?

Something along the lines of "Use good quality diesel with a biodiesel content of no more than 5%" or something.


Also has a big "Ford recommends BP" advertisement in the fuel filler flap.

[grasmere59]

You want to see the amount of Ethanol that there putting in unleaded nowadays!

[Bailes1992]

You want to see the amount of Ethanol that there putting in unleaded nowadays!

I don't understand why they aren't designing cars these days to run on bioethanol and biodiesel.
A car run on a biofuel is 100% carbon neutral as the plant has turned enough CO2 into oxygen to negate the CO2 released by the combustion process.
I often feel that rather than making engines cleaner by making them more efficient and using alternative fuels they are going completely backwards by using rubbish like EGR's and DPFs.

I would love to have another XUD 406 to run on cooking oil but been spoiled too much with my Mondeo now.

[lozz]

(I don't understand why they aren't designing cars these days to run on bioethanol and biodiesel.)

They couid but they wont, because they make billions out of us all by whats there already at the pump's.


(A car run on a biofuel is 100% carbon neutral as the plant has turned enough CO2 into oxygen to negate the CO2 released by the combustion process.
I often feel that rather than making engines cleaner by making them more efficient and using alternative fuels they are going completely backwards by using rubbish like EGR's and DPFs.

but they pump out more polution with no dpf dont they..? ,

iwas behind an old bus the other day, p reg leyland or what ever it was...the stench and the shite it kicked out was unreal, iwas suprised it was still in service
but they still use em,

but it made me think how much the moder'ner stuff is better, you dont realise until you get coaled a s'pose.

[KozmoNaut]

but it made me think how much the moder'ner stuff is better, you dont realise until you get coaled a s'pose.

I was driving behind an E60 BMW 5-series yesterday. It was obviously a diesel in severe state of disrepair, as the entire back end of the otherwise white car was completely black. Every time the driver would accelerate, a large plume of coal black smoke erupted from the tailpipe.

Even fancy modern clean-burning engines can turn nasty with lack of maintenance, or application of a bad remap or cheap power chip.

That said, what Bailes is describing definitely shouldn't happen with only a 2% increase in biodiesel content. At worst, I would expect a very slight power loss and/or reduction in fuel mileage, on the order of 2-3%, perhaps 5% at the very most. Something else must be wrong.

[rwb]

We seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. High pressure direct injection is clearly a good idea, but doesn't work with biodiesel.

Increasing efficiency and decreasing emissions are different things. The government wants to decrease emissions. If you can catch almost everything that comes out of it then a 15MPG V12 will go in tax band A.

I believe supermarket diesel contains a greater proportion of biodiesel than branded fuel, and it's mainly this that accounts for the difference.

The 406 was noisy and slow on supermarket diesel, but super diesel didn't seem to make any difference.
The 407 has been running on Shell and Texaco so far. It had one tank of super diesel, and although it felt downright vicious on it, it was it's first fill and I wasn't used to the car so I can't really say. However, since my driving pattern has changed a lot (part of the reason for the swap) it's difficult to assess now.

[lozz]

but it made me think how much the moder'ner stuff is better, you dont realise until you get coaled a s'pose.

I was driving behind an E60 BMW 5-series yesterday. It was obviously a diesel in severe state of disrepair, as the entire back end of the otherwise white car was completely black. Every time the driver would accelerate, a large plume of coal black smoke erupted from the tailpipe.

Even fancy modern clean-burning engines can turn nasty with lack of maintenance, or application of a bad remap or cheap power chip.

That said, what Bailes is describing definitely should happen with only a 2% increase in biodiesel content. At worst, I would expect a very slight power loss and/or reduction in fuel mileage, on the order of 2-3%, perhaps 5% at the very most. Something else must be wrong.

Fair comment,

(I was driving behind an E60 BMW 5-series yesterday. It was obviously a diesel in severe state of disrepair, as the entire back end of the otherwise white car was completely black. Every time the driver would accelerate, a large plume of coal black smoke erupted from the tailpipe.)

Wont be long before the police stop it and hand them a document,giving them 10days to get it fixed,(or render it un-roadworthy,)

[KozmoNaut]

We seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. High pressure direct injection is clearly a good idea, but doesn't work with biodiesel.

Biodiesel actually has increased lubricity over conventional diesel, which is good for injectors. On the other hand, the viscosity is slightly higher, so marginal or nearly worn-out fuel pumps and injector pumps may face issues with higher biodiesel content.

However, I contend that this is not a problem with biodiesel as such, it simply accelerates an already-existing issue.

As far as I know, B7 has been mandated EU-wide for a couple of years now. There really should be no difference between "supermarket" and "brand" diesel, since they come from the same handful of refineries anyway.

[trufflehunt]

From looking round the internet, it looks like Morrisons have their own facilities, that use rapeseed to
make their biodiesel, and they have plans for rather more than 7%.

I seem to recall from somewhere, that one of the common problems when people start using veggie oil
in their cars..... ordinary diesel is mucky stuff, and over the years creates an accumulation of crap thoughout
the system, pipes etc. Veggie oil is clean, and acts to dislodge the crap, which collects in filters. So one of the standard
practices amongst people who do full scale veggie conversions.., pre-heaters for the veggie in cold weather ...

is to expect to have to renew fuel filters once, twice... within quite a short time.., before the system cleans itself out.

7% is a lot less than 30, 40, 50%... but it would, I assume, have some kind of similar effect.

Wonder how often diesel filters get changed among diesel/bio-diesel owners ?

[rwb]

We seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. High pressure direct injection is clearly a good idea, but doesn't work with biodiesel.

Biodiesel actually has increased lubricity over conventional diesel, which is good for injectors. On the other hand, the viscosity is slightly higher, so marginal or nearly worn-out fuel pumps and injector pumps may face issues with higher biodiesel content.

However, I contend that this is not a problem with biodiesel as such, it simply accelerates an already-existing issue.

As far as I know, B7 has been mandated EU-wide for a couple of years now. There really should be no difference between "supermarket" and "brand" diesel, since they come from the same handful of refineries anyway.

So why won't HDis run on biodiesel?

[Doggy]

Peugeot were stating HDi's could use fuel conatining up to 30% bio diesel a few years ago. Don't know if that's still the case.

[lozz]

diesel.jpg

[Bailes1992]

but it made me think how much the moder'ner stuff is better, you dont realise until you get coaled a s'pose.

Nothing wrong with a little soot from a diesel, even the new ones! But anything belching out smoke has a serious defect.

That said, what Bailes is describing definitely shouldn't happen with only a 2% increase in biodiesel content. At worst, I would expect a very slight power loss and/or reduction in fuel mileage, on the order of 2-3%, perhaps 5% at the very most. Something else must be wrong.

Really? From empty I can get 75litres in my car. 2% of 75litres is 1.5litres.
That means that if I use a diesel that contains 7% bio I get an extra 1.5litres of biodiesel in my tank.

Now consider Millers Ecomax. It's an additive that comes highly recommended and gives a noticeable increase in performance, responsiveness and economy. And it can do all that by just adding a mere 75ml to my 75litre tank, or for an extra 'boost' you can use it at double strength which is still only 150ml. Suddenly the 1.5litres of extra biodiesel in a full tank of diesel seems like a massive amount.

There is nothing wrong with my car. It just really dislikes biodiesel, it's a trait of the 1.8TDCi.

However, I contend that this is not a problem with biodiesel as such, it simply accelerates an already-existing issue.

As far as I know, B7 has been mandated EU-wide for a couple of years now. There really should be no difference between "supermarket" and "brand" diesel, since they come from the same handful of refineries anyway.

There has been lots of issues with diesel fuel filters blocking up with a waxy substance in the UK over the last 12-18 months. Roughly around the same time the EU started introducing us to 7% diesel!

And although diesels may few well come from the same refinery it's just the base product. Biodiesel and other additive packages vary from garage to garage and are adding during the filling up process! Therefore diesel DOES very in quality from place to place.