Bad when cold

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:51 pm

My car's always been hideous when cold with no power and erratic rpm, but recently it's been getting a lot worse and actually stalling itself. After it's been running a while the problem will disappear but switch the engine off for 5 minutes and it's back even if the engine's still hot. I've not been able to test this, but it seems there may be a correlation between the worst of it (self-stalling) and high electrical usage (heated rear windscreen and lights)

I'm guessing it's either 1) the stepper motor (based purely on what James has said in the past - don't actually know what this does) or 2) the idle control valve but don't know enough to be sure.

Thoughts guys?

Benner · Post by **Benner** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:59 pm

I had this problem on my old Golf and it turned out to be the idle control valve.

I'm sure James will be able to shed some light on the situation.

Post by **Welly** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:51 am

I was going to say Air Flow Meter? or ICV or stepper, although the stepper only effects tickover.

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:03 am

I think it's just having problems with idling; it's taken to stalling under no drive load (ie clutch in) when cold. Come off the accelerator too quickly and it'll just die. Hm could it be a combination of problems with the throttle position sensor having some part in this you think?

The severity does seem to be proportional to the outside temperature too, but I just don't get why it happens if I nip into Asda for 5 minutes after a 60 mile drive home from work...

jameslxdt · Post by **jameslxdt** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:39 pm

right im here
theres no icv or air flow meter on the turbo, could be the stepper motor, but its too randomn to be this it seems, does it happen when hot or could or whenver it likes, mine runs like shite when cold, im putting it down to either a duff injector(s) or a lazy cam follower, in your case it could be an injector, but it cant be a cam follower as yours arent hydraulic, though your valve clearances may also be out, so what i would say is, when its running ok, disconnect each injector at a time, and see how it runs, then doo the same when it plays up, if and when you get to the dodgy injector it will most likely just die or run soo awful, if it doesnt then its probably not the injector, another thing to do would be to place the tip of a screw driver on the injector, and put your ear on the handle, they should all tick at the same rate, if one sounds odd, then its probably fudged, an injection specialist can bench test and clean them for about £40 each, also you could try cleaning the stepper motor, though i doubt this will help, check the injectors first and check the valve clearances then report back
i would recommend the pug 306 haynes manual for the turbo as the 306 has the 2.0 8v engine which is basically the same

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:44 pm

jameslxdt wrote: right im here

*bow*

does it happen when hot or could or whenver it likes,

Cold external temperatures (under 5c) appear to cause it to be much, much worse (stalling)
It's not related to the engine temperature as it happens to a hot engine that's been left in the cold for 10 minutes (albeit to a much lesser degree)

mine runs like shite when cold, im putting it down to either a duff injector(s) or a lazy cam follower, in your case it could be an injector,

I do have one injector (the one furthest from the belts - dunno which way they're numbered) which ticks LOUDLY. I mean it's clearly audible from inside or out with the bonnet shut. Resting my finger on the plugs in order was enough to convince me I'd found the cause of my ticking.

I've run the engine without that cylinder before (when I did my plugs) and like the others it makes a hell of a difference - It doesn't sound 'normal but unstable' like it does when this thing happens, but like an engine that's definitely ill. I got worried the lump was going to shake itself off its mountings! But that all happens regardless of which cylinder I kill.

Maybe it is just that injector clogged up. Hm I'll have to get around to getting it cleaned/replaced one of the days I guess. Not easy to live without my car though...

i would recommend the pug 306 haynes manual for the turbo as the 306 has the 2.0 8v engine which is basically the same

Just a few minutes ago I was pondering checking out the 306 and citroen manuals for turbo-related stuff...

Cheers mate

jameslxdt · Post by **jameslxdt** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:54 pm

no problem, i would like to point out that the 306 never had the turbo engine, just the 2.0 8v but as i said its identical except for the turbo and a few other bits
i would get that injector cleaned, dont waste your time with injector cleaner adittives as these do fook all, get it ultrasonically cleaned, but be VERY careful when removing the injectors, they are extremley brittle and are a very tight fit in the rail, im not sure of the price of the injectors but i changed a set on a volvo 940 turbo the other week and they were £250 each

thankfully pug parts are usually cheaper

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:21 pm

jameslxdt wrote:no problem, i would like to point out that the 306 never had the turbo engine, just the 2.0 8v but as i said its identical except for the turbo and a few other bits

I wish you'd said that *BEFORE* I left for Halfrauds instead of 5 minutes after!

Actually I thought the 2.0 8v looked similar despite the different engine code, but when I found the pic of the timing belt, it had something extra on the long straight part, so thought "nah, that ain't it"

i would get that injector cleaned, dont waste your time with injector cleaner adittives as these do fook all, get it ultrasonically cleaned

Yeah I've given the additives a try a couple of times. First as directed and then on a somewhat empty tank and it still did bugger all. Cleaning doesn't sound too bad, but as I say it's hard to be without my wheels living so far from work...

jameslxdt · Post by **jameslxdt** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:05 pm

im sure the belt is the same, ill have at look on the autodata at work tommorow

jameslxdt · Post by **jameslxdt** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:06 pm

mjb wrote: but as I say it's hard to be without my wheels living so far from work...

any good injection specialist should be able to remove, clean and refit the injectors while you wait, it doesnt usually take that long