VW caught cheating US emissions tests

[steve_earwig]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34298259

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/busin ... .html?_r=0

The recall covers roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars sold in the United States since 2009

Ah, I was wondering.

So, they didn't sell these cars anywhere else? While I enjoy the idea of VW getting reamed and the thought of all those cars having all the emissions garbage turned on, permanently ruining their performance, it does underline the fact that the current emissions limits are so hard to reach on diesels without crippling them that their days are numbered.

[Doggy]

It's a Dub thing. You wouldn't want any of this crap.

Unlikely to be just North America. How do we view the prospect of increased fuel consumption and poorer performace for the ever popular Audi driver?

Anyone fancy starting a petition?

[Welly]

Diesels are coming to an end aren't they? because EU.

I heard Renner have stopped doing D's now and all their range is Pez powered? I don't suppose they'll shed many tears waving bye to the great* DCi engine

[trufflehunt]

Does this have anything to do with......

I seem to recall that years ago..., manufacturers had a choice of going the 'common rail' diesel route,
or another form of diesel fueling(?)..
They went for common rail because it was cheaper.

or has this got nothing to do with anything.

[Welly]

Possibly although I don't know how else you could inject diesel. The VW PD system seemed reliable but even they went over to common rail in the end, probably for lower emissions.

I don't get this test case though? they make it sound like the car 'knows' when its being officially tested and reduces the emissions using software which then reverts back to 'dirty mode' when you start driving normally?

[steve_earwig]

It's probably looking for someone holding the revs up with the car in neutral, or maybe just idling for a long time.

I thought the PDs had problems with cam wear if the oil wasn't changed regularly with the right stuff.

[Doggy]

PD's can only do one injection per combustion cycle, so you get the characteristic knock that was so appealing on direct injection diesels of old.
VW/Audi spent years spouting the advantages* of this system, then quietly adopted the common rail design without mentioning it.

Vorsprung durch quatsch

[Welly]

PD's did put strain on the cam but I think they were quite a trouble free engine generally, certainly the 130bhp 1.9 was very successful by being basic (well compared to CR's).

HDi's seem to do CR pretty well and without any fuss although didn't we say that it's impossible to tell whether they are still injecting as intended after many thousands of miles use? I bet if you sampled 10 HDi's on here you'd find a few that weren't injecting properly. It seems high pressure injection is ok but its the collection of the waste soot where all the fun* starts on these moderns......

[benczuk]

..reduces the emissions using software

By peeing* in the engine apparently

*injecting urea from a special tank

[Bailes1992]

PD engines are bulletproof if they are looked after.
They need special PD oil or they wear their cams but it's no more expensive than any other oil.
They are very responsive and love to be tuned as well.

Years ago when I bought my Mondeo I was tempted by a B5.5 Passat 4Motion 1.9 PD. Remap would gave taken it to over 160bhp.

[KozmoNaut]

It's probably looking for someone holding the revs up with the car in neutral, or maybe just idling for a long time.

I thought the PDs had problems with cam wear if the oil wasn't changed regularly with the right stuff.

The special programming seemed to be looking for situations where "test-cycle type driving" was combined with having only the driving wheels on a dynamometer. If these two conditions were met, it would switch to a special low-performance extra-low emissions.

Honestly, I'm not too sorry if this means an end to diesels in passenger cars. They take far too long to warm up compared to the driving patterns of most people, leading to clogged filters and sooty EGR valves. And with the advances on petrol engines with direct injection, variable valves and turbocharging, a lot of petrol cars these days have diesel-comparable torque as well as power in the high rev range. And the fuel economy gap is closing fast, with the break-even point for diesels being even higher yearly mileage than it used to be.

[Welly]

Isn't it typical for the US to get all shirty about a Foreign manufacturer over a fairly minor thing in the scheme of things, and something they themselves have forced them into trying to comply with, when the vast majority of US drivers smoke around in hoofing great Petrol V8's which are so inefficient they should be banned from the Planet.

If the US were able to make highly efficient compact Diesels would they pass Californya's strict rules? of course they would. Double standards and all that and just because it wasn't made in the good old USA it must be sh*t and banned.

[Bailes1992]

Petrols have a fair way to come before I would serriously consider a brand new one.

Me and Welly did some calculations a few months ago. Basically the £700 extra I paid for my car would have broken even after 20k. Or 1 years for myself. Infact since we did these calculations fuel prices have turned on their head so it'll be even less.

Apparently the 3-pot sounds so roarty that owners tend to push them a bit and report poor-ish fuel economy which makes sense. I bet if you tried you can get 45mpg.

Welly maths alert:

1.0 petrol @ 40mpg:

15000 miles = 375 gallons @ 5.18 (normal unleaded) = £1,942.50

1.5 Diesel @ 53mpg:

15000 miles = 283 gallons @ 5.95 (prem diesel) = £1,683.85

Diesel saving = £259.00 per year

Given the higher purchase price of the Diesel and the thirst for Tyres/Brakes/Servicing there's not much in it really.

Also take into account mine has free tax so there's another £30 saving!
£289/year.

There's a £700 difference between the 1.0T 125ps and the 1.5TDCi 120ps.

So the engine will pay for itself in 29 months.

Servicing costs are the same (although I will be doing extra) and they are both on 12,500miles/12 month intervals.

And I can't imagine there being that much difference in the tyre wear because my block is all aluminum too, just like the 1.0T.

I think my fuel consumption will decrease too! At the moment I seem to be doing a fair few shorter journeys on top of my usual long commutes which is bringing my fuel economy right down.
When they stop I expect to be getting 60mpg+.

Oh, and I do more like 20,000miles a year!

Not only are modern petrols going to cost you more in fuel but also you now have all the expensive parts that were a risk of having a more economical diesel fitted to your little petrol. So in my opinion there is no benefit from an owners point of view for having the petrol. Unless of course you do seriously short journeys. I would never buy a diesel for my partner, she does 2 miles to work and 2 miles home and the odd trip to her parents about 10 miles away although most of the time we take my car up there.

I say all this but most of you know I've had an absolute nightmare with Ford. There is a glitch in the programming of the EGR on my car which causes it to bog down and sometimes cut out. Because not many people are moaning about it Ford and refusing to fix it. BUT... that was just bad luck. The 1.0T could have had the same issue for all I know.
It does mean though that my new Euro6 engine as soon as it's out of warrenty will be having any piece of green emissions friendly hardware removed. That includes the EGR, DPF and my active grills. The 6 stage injection system will be changed to 2 or 4 stage, something that will give me best reliability and economy and torque. I already swtich off Start/Stop as soon as I get in the car every morning and I ignore the stupid gearchange indicator which seems to want my to constantly labour my engine and destroy my DMF. Although I will look into converting it into a bifuel engine as was my plan with my Mondeo. A Diesel LPG blend constantly monitored and adjusting using a special piggyback ECU that can allow an LPG substitute of upto 50% on light engine loads.

[steve_earwig]

And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
You cu... My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain
I've lived a life that's full
I traveled each and ev'ry highway
And more, much more than this, I did it my way

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34325005

[Doggy]

No big surprise it wasn't just the north americans getting shafted.

VW are making a provision of nearly £5b to meet the costs of this fiasco, but fines in the US alone might come to several times this amount.

Anybody care to speculate on the likely effect on residual values for your average diesel VW/Audi?