and today i have mostly been...

[steve_earwig]

It did seem to leak for a considerable time, when I realised I was loosing pressure I downed tools and headed for the shower as I was a dusty mess. It's stopped now anyway.

There are indeed hair follicles there, a bit thinly spaced mind

T'wife never noticed.

More copper pipe musings:

[steve_earwig]

Annoying little morons, sorry, students stopped play. I can't do anything noisy now until 8:30, which is ok by me as I started about 6:30 this morning.

I've just been drawing... hold on...

This is a trap they use here for washing machines (it's called a "sifon" which strikes me as being the complete opposite of what it is). They just fit it in the wall and hook the washing machine in. Will it fit a condenser dryer though? Nobody seems to mention the size of their drain pipes (I Must Go And Measure One) but I'm sure I could cludge something together if necessary. The level of the drains is fairly critical for washing machines and condenser driers, our existing Hotpoint Arriston says between 65cm and 100cm from the floor, whereas driers that express a preference seem to favour 80cm to 100cm. I was hoping to use a 10cm wide bit of wall I can't put a washing machine in because of a beam (well, they'd go but you wouldn't be able to open the door) so I was thinking to put the taps and drains one above the other here. 65 to 100cm? They'll fit! Obviously I'll have to put the taps above otherwise I won't be able to get to them, but it's always bugged me that the existing washing machine could go 2-3" closer to the wall, if it wasn't for all the sodding plumbing behind it.

The reason I was drawing them on the wall is I think these breezeblocks are soft enough for me to carve them with a wood chisel. Maybe.

I did start to drill holes across the floor further towards the sink but I had the old "it's too close to the bog but if I move it further away maybe I won't be able to get a big enough radiator in there" dilemma again, so I summoned the wife (not that she can help much but I can bounce ideas off of her). I Really Need To Go And Measure Some. We decided, tentativly, that we could move it a foot closer to the door (maybe modern radiators are more efficient than our old tat). I don't know where to put the feed for the bog either, I could measure the old one but anything new might have a wider/narrower tank (I'm sure there's a word for it but all I can think of is the Croat kotlić). I Really Need To Go And Measure Some.

Also, the bath, taps in it or taps above? Usually above here. How High? I guess it doesn't matter much, but I'd prefer them to go up as I have in mind draining this all out if we decide not to heat it in the winter (always possible). I'm bound to put them in the wrong place, right where the feeds need to go through or something daft. I Really Need To Go And Measure Some.

Ah yes, cistern. How could I forget?

[OllieNZ]

Iirc the drain pipe for our condenser drier was quite small 3/8 of an inch maybe, it's probably still in the shed somewhere (never used it and drier is now long gone) I'll have a look over the weekend if it'll help?

[steve_earwig]

Argh no - it's tiny! Thanks for the offer but don't worry digging about in the cold, I was kind of expecting it from all the (frankly awful) drawings I've seen in owner's manuals (where it looks like anything from a hose pipe down to a bit of string ). I think, so long as I can get it into the trap and keep it there, it'll be fine.

Btw folks, looks like the question about sharing the outlet with the washing machine was a good one, I've read a few times that the outlet should never be blocked or the back pressure could damage the machine, so I'd think positive pressure from a washing machine discharging would be even more serious.

[steve_earwig]

Bt... Incidentally, it may seem a lot of bother plumbing it in when I could just empty the tank but a) there's a drain right there so why not? and b) t'wife will obviously be using it the most and she already proved that she considers a bagless vacuum cleaner = portable black hole.

[Welly]

The only thing I can remember about drains from appliances is to watch out for the 'flood level' of the appliance and its associated drain; if the drain blocks the appliance fills with water, this in turn could fill the 'other' drain for 'other' appliance connected to the common drain (water finds its own level etc). A 'flooded' appliance can piss water out of its drain if the drain is lower than the flood level of the appliance. That's why you'll see a stand pipe behind the appliance to make sure it's higher up. Our WM drain hose rises up to the top of the machine and across to the kitchen sink trap in the next cupboard; it then spews water into a hose nozzle adaptor just above the sink trap.

Lots of measuring/thinking/measuring will be needed for the sanitaryware layout, as for the rad in the bathroom you'll be surrounded by insulation so a compact modern convector style rad will be good (tallish and narrow) stick a TRV on the flow to regulate the temp.

[steve_earwig]

T'wife wants one of those towel rail radiators for the bathroom there They come powerful enough so it'll be ok. I did some calculations for room sizes:

Bathroom - 22m3 2673btu 783.4w
bedroom 1 - 40m3 4752btu 1392w
bedroom 2 - 30m3 2916btu 854.6w

(I've tried a few on-line calculators and got similar results)

The other rooms will probably get convection radiators, maybe more modern in style than the cheapy ones downstairs.

After actually seeing one (yes, about 3/8") I've had a rethink on the drier drain, I've decided not to worry plumbing in unless it proves necessary and then I can just drill a hole through the wall and hey, there's a big drain pipe that side which I can just plumb into, or put an upstand on, or a trap, or whatever takes my fancy. I did have the 2 traps planned out with angles so that there's no way the water would end up going into the drier but meh. I've looked at installation instructions for quite a few washing machines (and driers), the lower height varies but 1m max above the bottom of the machine seems universal, so that's where the trap's going.

After some frantic activity this morning

I'm though to the other wall for the sink. Not joined but it's all cut to size. Btw that's a floor trap, they always use them in bathrooms here and I quite like them.

After a clean up this evening

The drain is in, I'm using broken roof tiles (thanks to last year's winds I have a few) to guarantee a fall. Unfortunately the spigots for the tap cocks looked too far apart (I've no idea of a standard but I guess they shouldn't be too far out from the sink stand I'll have to use because of the breezeblocks and I'm thinking 17cm as that's the spacing for a monoblock here) so I'll need to get some 90 degree male to females in the morning. Then I can fit plugs into the spigots and pressure test it all.

I almost forgot, because some of the drain fittings will be hard to assemble (because they're under the copper) I was investigating what sort of lubricant I could use to ease assembly. Nothing oil-based, either silicon grease or teflon. So I looked in my workshop* amd found some motorcycle chain lube. What's in this? Umm, silicon grease and teflon. That'll do nicely

Finally, have some cute:

[Welly]

That's you 'first fixed' then. You'll put flexi hoses to the taps/cistern conns won't you? seems to be the way in yourope. They became popular here too until the water regulation advisory board decided they were 'dangerous to health'

[steve_earwig]

Oh yes, flexibles for everything! They're even on the electric boiler (Yanks are the same, or they were last time I was there).

Speaking of electric boiler, one of the first jobs I did in this house was to change the electric boiler here. The old one didn't work, I wasn't sure how but t'wife had a plumber* come and look at it and he condemned it, so she got me to change it. It was a shame because it was a big bugger with a worm through it from the heating, so the heating could have warmed the water as an alternative to electrickery but, ah well. As I pulled it off the wall I realised it was still half full - I thought I'd drained it A bit heavier than expected but I managed. When I had the new one in place I investigated and found that one of the flexies had collapsed and this was why it didn't work. As t'wife had her shiny new boiler it went with the scrap but, if I had my time again, it would have gone back up. I still regret not realising the problem sooner.

Time for a pressure test!

[steve_earwig]

Holding...

[steve_earwig]

It held for half an hour or so, I think that qualifies as a success. I did cheat though, I got some 18mm caps and closed it off before the sink as the suspense was killing me. I'm just now taking a break from continuing plumbing to the sink.

Btw I was looking at various fittings on t'internet earlier and it occurred to me that you still don't use 18mm in the UK. I have some concerns with long feeds and 15mm as you can definitely see a drop in flow in the kitchen where I had to extend the feed when me moved the sink and used 15mm for the job. I would have used 22 to where it divides up but I don't have a drill big enough to go through the floor, so 18mm seems a fair compromise. And it's all 18mm, I don't think I'll bother with 15 again.

[steve_earwig]

The bulk of it has held for 2 days, I've also just tested the bath and w/machine feeds and it all looks ok.

I'm sort of finished, for now anyway. I'm not sure where to put the bath taps, conventional wisdom says stick 'em at the end by the plug hole but there's a chimney there, so I need to put them half way along. Yeah, ok, if the wife decides what length (of bath!) she wants But the feeds are behind that wall, the cold goes on to the w/machine connection and the hot is capped off at 1 meter. Also the bog just ends in a cock for now, I could probably take a guess but I'd rather have a bog to play with. Everything else is there, I just need to finish lagging some pipes in the morning and I can have a clean up.

No pics for now, I'll take some in the morning when I've had a tidy up because there are tools everywhere. And then I'll need to cover it all up with concrete

I've used, umm, about 16 meters of pipe and god knows how many fittings. I have about a meter and a half of pipe left to do the bath and bog, which is plenty.

Hopefully that'll be enough to keep the electrician happy, I can't imagine he'd need to know where the bath and bog go but I can always draw them on the wall. It would be nice to give my hands and back a rest but, unfortunately, t'wife wants all the roof beams exposed and they'll all need sanding and varnishing. All of them. Argh I'm gonna need a bigger step ladder!

[Welly]

"electrician"

I thought you would do that?

[steve_earwig]

I know, shame on me I was going to but it means opening up the (3-phase) supply cables and fitting another fuse panel, and then there's the mental way they do the wiring here which I just can't get my head around - one fuse, two sockets and a light I'd have done it UK-style which probably would have broken all sorts of regs. This is the guy that did most of the wiring on the inverters and he's done a nice, tidy job there, so I've got no issue bunging him some extra work. If I didn't know him I probably would have done it myself as I wouldn't have trusted anyone else (and probably ended up being fried to a crisp).

[Welly]

I see, probable best.

Trouble with electrics is they look great on paper in diagrams but in the flesh it's like WTF?