Just Brought A Spare Engine

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:43 am

Pieter at DP-Engineering, know's of people with the XU10J2TE with 300hp on stock internals, but thats the limit..

I was thinking and been pricing up components for forged pistons and rods etc..

The Guy at oh der whats the place called that you gave me the links for ? Well anyone one of the guys that you recommended offers headwork and a cat cam kit fitted for about £700 in total. The stock valves are goo for 300 apparently, but its always better to go a liltte bigger...

Turbo wise, GT2860R is the turbo of choice with the Love Collector V2 from DP.

Then some large injectors... maybe 450cc's don't quite know what kind of flow rate I'm going to need to it.... hopefully that's where you come in, when you make my Megasquirt kit up for me, and map it

lol

Malachy · Post by **Malachy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:46 am

450cc will be fine for 300bhp

i decided to go 8 injector as my engine build is now suitable for around 450bhp. im tempted to go 4wd next year ;) and with 8 injectors you can tune for economy and off boost driving easier

problem is getting someone to rebuild the 405 mi16x4 gearbox with strong enough internals (planet gears are made of cheese) without bending me over

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:06 am

I'm hoping that 450cc's will be enough for around 350 - 400 max? With an uprated pump of course as I wan't to be using the components to well within their mechanical / electrical limits... LONGEVITY...

4WD thats a lot of cutting and shutting to get it all in !

So are all 8 injectors programmable seperately or do the 4 standard ones get controlled normally whilst the extra 4 share the signal once the engine speed gets above a specified amount!???

Don't suppose you've got a Quaife or similar LSD I can have ?

Malachy · Post by **Malachy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:21 am

niz406 wrote:I'm hoping that 450cc's will be enough for around 350 - 400 max? With an uprated pump of course as I wan't to be using the components to well within their mechanical / electrical limits... LONGEVITY...

4WD thats a lot of cutting and shutting to get it all in !

So are all 8 injectors programmable seperately or do the 4 standard ones get controlled normally whilst the extra 4 share the signal once the engine speed gets above a specified amount!???

Don't suppose you've got a Quaife or similar LSD I can have ?

might have a quaiffe spare when i switch to 4wd (although im using a be box and not sure it will fit the ml box you guys use) and yeah will be a bit of work but im quite handy with my welder

450s will start to get to limit really at around 350bhp. at 3 bar, although up the fuel pressure and your laughing bosch injectors tend to be able to take around 7bar max fuel pressure, but its not good to run that much on your pump.

a quick sum to get a rough guide is (desired bhp x5)/4 = rough cc per min needed for the bhp

im running 2 banks of injectors, the smaller ones are all fired same time as they are stock (very few cars use batch fire as its hard to get run smooth) the second set fire when on boost and cut out when it goes 5 kpa below boost.
first set are 240cc, second set 360cc
when on boost both sets fire for the same duration giving a potential 600cc/min

ms only has 2 injector driver circuits at the moment (same as most aftermarket ecus) would be nice to have 4 for my setup and run batch but its no big deal i might gain 2mpg when crusing but thats about it, there is a new add on board in develpment that will allow sequential injection so that will have the option of upto 8 injector circuits

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:45 am

Handy With a welder ay, i'll have a custom inlet and plenum please? lol

How much are the lsd's these's days... £400ish or more?

Extra 50hp over desired output - That's still a good amount of reserve, so the'll do me good!

Ahhh I see 600cc a min.... what's your car pushing now ?

Where's your sig and links to your project page gone ?

Malachy · Post by **Malachy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:18 pm

niz406 wrote:Handy With a welder ay, i'll have a custom inlet and plenum please? lol

How much are the lsd's these's days... £400ish or more?

Extra 50hp over desired output - That's still a good amount of reserve, so the'll do me good!

Ahhh I see 600cc a min.... what's your car pushing now ?

Where's your sig and links to your project page gone ?

well removed project page links as its all so far out of date now.car is pushing about 1/2hp at the moment as its stripped to shell for respray and stich welding but
engine is around 300bhp mark running 8psi of boost with my HUUUGE turbo
http://www.aoxv99.dsl.pipex.com/turbo/IMGP0617.JPG

roller bearings are amazing, it spins so freely comes on boost by 3k and that turbo will flow enough cfm for 450bhp 500bph at a push, although thats a bit dreamy

lsds are around £500, £400+vat and delivery

im in middle of designing new exhaust mani at the moment i made a log style one a'la t16 but i think ill try a tubular one next, there not much power to be gained with tubulars in turbo application since the most important thing is gas velocity not pulse. The faster the gas moves the faster the turbo spools.
but the tubular ones do look nice so ill have a go

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Sweet Turbo.... what did you mount that too / how?

Only 8 p.s.i sweet... bet your charge temps are cool ? So what cooler were you using for that ?

So what do you think, GT2860RS disco potato or the GT35 lol?

For the engine thats in my car, I'm upgrading the stock compressor wheel and cover for a larger trim unit... best way for hp per £££ until I've rebuilt this other engine... Owen Developments are sorting the stuff out for me, with either 360 degree thrust bearing or a ball bearing cartridge

SO my loley TB25 could be a GT25B with a T28+ trim compressor wheel... and all for the small sum of... well lets just see what OD come back with... might be cheaper to buy the GT2860RS off them !

if there was a drooling smilie.... there would be a row of them right here......

You got to have a go at tubular.... its not just the fact that they are sweeet but also the fact the tracts are longer reducing backpressure due to flow restrictions of the stock manifold. Post some pics of your mani in progress.. that'll be cool to see

Malachy · Post by **Malachy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:41 pm

i might be able to sort you something out with owen develpments they are just down the road from me.

My collegue used to be the service manager at bellingers in wantage (vauxhall dealership) and used to have a lot of dealings with owen developments as its where they got all there turbo parts from ill have a word with him on tuesday.

back pressure does not matter before the turbo anyway

its only post turbo it matters in fact a bit of pressure helps as it increases the velocity of the exhaust gasses.

the first design i done and made that worked was this
http://www.aoxv99.dsl.pipex.com/exhaustmani.JPG

the turbo sits to the side of the engine above the gearbox.

ill take some pics of the mani when i can dig it out from the pile of 306 parts in my shed

id go disco potato as its just such a good turbo so well rated.
reliable and very quick spooling.

i'm running the same fmic this one i managed to get lucky on an auction and get it for £40 ok its no "pace" but it does the job.
however im binning the old charge pipes and fabricating a full welded hard pipe setup and getting rid of the silicone joins, always a pain them popping off even with lowish boost.

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:02 pm

Really? Well they have offered me the disco potato for £580 +Vat

So just waiting for the parts list and prices to come back from them, if you could have a word too that would be great!

Sorry just realised what I put there then.... whopps, of course not, because its the gasses the drive the turbine... the faster the gasses released into the exhaust housing the quicker the turbo spins and spools. DOH I meant about the amount of gasess it can pass through the exhaust branches on the tubular style... meaning a slight reduction of temps exhaust side.

See the designm, thats like the DP-Eng manifold

Would you go .64 exhaust or .86? I was going to stay with the .64

XS Power do some good things, they do a nice lookin chargecooler...

What clamps were you using on the pipe connections?

Malachy · Post by **Malachy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:25 pm

niz406 wrote:Really? Well they have offered me the disco potato for £580 +Vat

So just waiting for the parts list and prices to come back from them, if you could have a word too that would be great!

Sorry just realised what I put there then.... whopps, of course not, because its the gasses the drive the turbine... the faster the gasses released into the exhaust housing the quicker the turbo spins and spools. DOH I meant about the amount of gasess it can pass through the exhaust branches on the tubular style... meaning a slight reduction of temps exhaust side.

See the designm, thats like the DP-Eng manifold

Would you go .64 exhaust or .86? I was going to stay with the .64

XS Power do some good things, they do a nice lookin chargecooler...

What clamps were you using on the pipe connections?

my exhaust is .63 but also a t3 size so is about 2x as ig as a t2 and still works fine. a.47 t3 is about 2x as big as a .64 t2

it all depends on the size of the compressor based on that runnign too big a compressor with too small an exhaust will cause the turbo to stall.i have some xls sheets i can dig out that can wrk most of it our for you
but ar really isnt a good way to measure turbo size since there are lots of variables with it

STALLED · Post by **STALLED** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:05 am

Realistically, how much power can a BE3 really handle?

Malachy · Post by **Malachy** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:14 am

STALLED wrote:Realistically, how much power can a BE3 really handle?

about 250ish reliably, it also depends how you drive, if your flooring it in first then it will last 5 mins.
however the be4/5 from the xsara vts is a lot better than the stock be3, the be4/6 from the gti6 is made of tissue paper

STALLED · Post by **STALLED** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:23 am

Malachy wrote:
STALLED wrote:Realistically, how much power can a BE3 really handle?
about 250ish reliably, it also depends how you drive, if your flooring it in first then it will last 5 mins.
however the be4/5 from the xsara vts is a lot better than the stock be3, the be4/6 from the gti6 is made of tissue paper

Ah cheers for that!

Are the gears in the Be4/6 thinner in diamater than the ones in the Be4/5 - hence causing them to be weaker?

Malachy · Post by **Malachy** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:43 pm

STALLED wrote:
Malachy wrote:
STALLED wrote:Realistically, how much power can a BE3 really handle?
about 250ish reliably, it also depends how you drive, if your flooring it in first then it will last 5 mins.
however the be4/5 from the xsara vts is a lot better than the stock be3, the be4/6 from the gti6 is made of tissue paper
Ah cheers for that!

Are the gears in the Be4/6 thinner in diamater than the ones in the Be4/5 - hence causing them to be weaker?

no the actual gear tooth depth is not very deep on the 4/6 this means that they strip when you start putting decent torque through them.