Timing Belt Tension? [More to story...help?]

[Gazaka]

Sorry to bump an old thread of mine, I have been inactive for quite a while. Mostly due to real life and work situation, I wont bore you with that. Original thread was about whether the noise coming from the engine bay was turbo related. Whilst this was a bad vacuum, was more underlying than that. Had the Timing belt replaced in Feb 2016 along with the water pump and timing belt tensioner. The first noise I was experiencing ended up being related to a faulty water pump that had been installed and started to seize up (apparently can happen?). Even then, the noise came back, after the 3rd visit to the same garage (thankfully not had to pay anything so far) they said that the noise was the tension not being correct. Considering it was when they did it... and then it changed after a few months they were perplexed. The car has been in again in Dec 2016 and they adjusted it again and the noise went completely, until this week. Since it is something that they have dealt with, I keep taking it back to them. It clears the noise for a few months... then it comes back again sounding all whiny again. I went to another garage who basically didn't want to know, they told me to sort with original garage.

I guess what I'm trying to find out is, what things could cause the tension to change? Cold start you cant notice any noise, after warming up a little, very noticeable. When in gear and anything above 1200rpm it gives off a kind of Woooooooo whiney noise, depress the clutch it instantly goes away. Interestingly on motorway journeys and cruising along about 2200-2500rpm... no whine at all. Just sounds all reet. The car feels responsive and drives fine, but the nervous twitch I get when I hear this noise is beginning to get to me. I am due to go back to the garage again for the 5th time, but will be completely out of any sort of warranty now. Wish I had the tools and the skill set and space to do this myself. I have absolutely loved driving this car so far (except when it has been making stupid whine) and resent the idea of getting anything else just yet. Sorry for the rant, but any ideas on what and where to go from here would be grateful.

Hi guys, still a relatively newbie here.

53 Reg 406 2.0 HDI Sedan from my dad back at the start of the year. Serviced, new timing belt, new alternator, brake pads. Recently seemed to have lost power. Not sure how to explain it, so will try the best I can. Bare in mind I am a complete novice with cars so I am all up for learning love it.

Back when I got the car, my dad said that the turbo is knackered and that it doesn't work. I asked why he thought that, his response was that the turbo didn't kick in when it used to and doesn't pull away in 3rd like it used to. After replacing the timing belt and servicing the car, I got him to test drive it and he said it felt like new. Win, win... I thought.

6 months pass by. The car passes the MOT flying colours and even been on some long journeys. I have decided that Scotland is an amazing place to visit, not only for the whisky. MPG on a 1200 mile round trip was fantastic and if I was to go off the readings it gave... in the 50's. No issues with the driving etc and the car felt 'perky' for want of a better word. Need a bit of boost, knock it down a gear and a bit of gas... and she flies.

Until recently.

The car sounds whiny. I don't even know if that is the word for it. Around 2000rpm causes this sound and it immediately stops if the clutch is depressed. Previously the car used to be punchy if you stayed in a lower gear and get to about 2500-3000rpm had a bit of a kick to it and could feel the turbo kicking in. It does not do this currently, I am too scared to push it any further in case it decides to go boom boom. The car did have an issue with oil weeping from the Rocker Cover Gasket, the turbo (or lack thereof) seemed to have happened after I took the car in to local garage. Rusty caliper and Rocker Cover Gasket was replaced for £30 (probably could have done cheaper myself but hadn't the time). The whiny noise was present before the garage trip and turbo seemed to be kicking in fine before. After the garage trip, whiny noise still there and feels like loss in power.

I really wish I knew someone that has a 406 to get a feel of what the car should sound like when it is properly working, just to alleviate any fears or concerns. Being able to properly diagnose the car would be fantastic and I refuse to head towards a local Pug dealership. I know I could just take the car back to the garage and get them to look at the car again, but have a feeling that if I go in and say.. oh... the turbo isn't being very turbo, they will come up with something else and not really fix the problem. Unfortunately I don't know anyone with a PP2000 to see if any fault codes. I do have an OBD2 wifi dongle that can connect to the Torque App on the google store, and it is able to give real time readings.

I'm not really sure what I am asking and feel like my typing is terrible to convey my thoughts properly. I will try to get a video with some audio uploaded but unsure how long that will take. Whilst I appreciate that it could be any number of factors and a needle in a haystack, has anybody got any suggestions or tests I could try to diagnose where the fault could lye? i.e. what readings on the sensors should the boost be showing as?

Thanks for reading and hope I haven't bored you.

EDIT: Poorly shot video with sound https://youtu.be/iF3z34XH5ZA No pressure in pipe going to the Turbocharger. Strange noise coming from near the fuel filter, which is almost like a hissing noise (but my version of hissing noise could be someone elses growl lol) Question: the pipe that I can see going into the Turbocharger is coming from the intercooler, which is coming from a pipe under the car which seems to go back behind the engine. I haven't been able to get under the car yet to check there. The Bluetooth OBD2 Adapter connected to android app Torque is connecting fine and able to read the sensors on the car. Also has the ability to check for any stored fault codes in the ECU. Nothing is being flagged up when I search. it also has an option to clear all faults on the ECU, which I did before trying anything out.

EDIT: I am living North west England (Bolton) just in case anybody is nearby that could potentially help with diagnostics

[PeterN]

The whining noise is probably gearbox related and I doubt has anything to do with the lack of power. The first thing to suspect for the power problem is the MAF, this is what tells the ECU the temperature and volume of the air intake, if it isn't working it will send the wrong messages to the ECU. You can check it quite easily by unplugging it, its located in the air intake pipe just downstream from the filter.

Peter

[Gazaka]

The whining noise is probably gearbox related and I doubt has anything to do with the lack of power. The first thing to suspect for the power problem is the MAF, this is what tells the ECU the temperature and volume of the air intake, if it isn't working it will send the wrong messages to the ECU. You can check it quite easily by unplugging it, its located in the air intake pipe just downstream from the filter.

Peter

Thanks for your reply. I have had a friend who is more mechanically minded to have a listen/look. I will update OP with a video showcasing the noise and some new information. Will be borrowing some ramps tomorrow to get under the car and check a few other things. In short, the pipes going into the turbocharger are, in want of a better word... flaccid. I suspect something in the loop is leaking air (not sure the technical term). We will be checking all pipes are fine without any splits.

[dirtydirtydiesel]

Hi Gazaka,
Try posting your location you might find a fellow 406 owner nearby

[Gazaka]

Hi Gazaka,
Try posting your location you might find a fellow 406 owner nearby

Good idea, told you I was a newbie haha.

[jasper5]

Sounds like the turbo to me.

If you like you can run it over to me near Accrington and I'll take a look for you...I'm close to junction 5/6 M65.

I'm an experienced mechanic with lots of Peugeot experience .

[Gazaka]

Sounds like the turbo to me.

If you like you can run it over to me near Accrington and I'll take a look for you...I'm close to junction 5/6 M65.

I'm an experienced mechanic with lots of Peugeot experience .

Thanks. Just got a busy few days currently, I will sent a PM your way when I am free to possibly arrange a meet. May possibly find out what it is tomorrow, friend I am working with tomorrow said would have a quick gander as well. I will update once I know anything cheers

[Gazaka]

Just an update.

Pipe near turbo waste gate valve was split. Fixed lack of boost problems. Car isn't as whiny as before now. Still got a funny odd noise coming from fuel filter area, slightly high pitched. May be normal... not sure.

[PeterN]

That used to be quite common on early Hdi's but I haven't heard it lately, sort of a whining/growling noise?

Peter

[Gazaka]

That used to be quite common on early Hdi's but I haven't heard it lately, sort of a whining/growling noise?

Peter

Kinda. The video I posted is probably the best to assess without actually standing in front of it and listening. I know age and mileage (168k) would contribute to how the engine sounds, I mean I haven't been gunning it around. But never know what previous owners were like... oh wait... it was my dad... then probably he was gunning round. He loved the boost. Been told by a lot of people that the 2.0 HDI is a really good engine, I just hope to goodness that mine still has some left in it

[GingerMagic]

Glad its sorted - the turbos are generally pretty robust in the 406s - its normally a boost leak or vacuum issue that affects it.

Been told by a lot of people that the 2.0 HDI is a really good engine, I just hope to goodness that mine still has some left in it

Don't worry about the mileage too much - they can go on for years with proper maintenance - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23617&p=238391&hili ... ge#p238391

[PeterN]

The early 8 valve 2.0. Hdi is a brilliant engine, you will find a number for sale with 300-400k miles on them. I have had one fail in a 406 at 246k but that was an electronic fault, not to be blamed on the engine.

Peter

[Gazaka]

Wow, crazy high mileage numbers there. All this time I am thinking, 168k was high haha. Thanks for the information. Being relatively new to driving and owning a car (started late, went without a car until turned 31) I am now slowly building some confidence with little jobs that need to be done. Serviced the car myself, with a little guidance from ex mechanic friend at the time. In all, never a day passes without learning something new

[Gazaka]

Shameless bump.

In short, what things could cause the tension of the timing belt to change? I posted explanation on the original post, then realised that the thread wouldn't get bumped unless I actually added a post.

[jasper5]

Shameless bump.

In short, what things could cause the tension of the timing belt to change? I posted explanation on the original post, then realised that the thread wouldn't get bumped unless I actually added a post.

The tension has to be set wrong in the first place. Heat could alter the tension making it too tight then eventually the water pump bearing fails from being under too much pressure.

I've repaired this situation a few times over the years.
Some people do not allow the tensioner pulley to turn after tensioning the belt...you must set it so that the tensioner pulley can be turned with slight resistance from the belt....if you can't turn the tensioner pulley after tensioning it's too tight!
I've done more than 60 of these timing belts.