Sump 'crush' washers - a lesson learned

[Welly]

Did an oil change on the Twingo on Sunday, remembered I renewed the sump washer last time I thought I'd be safe to reuse it a second time....OH NO YOU WON'T said the washer

The Renner sump washer is an aluminium 16mm and just kinda squashes between the two surfaces as you'd expect only the 'second' application turned it into something resembling a satellite dish and many drips of oil followed. Ordered one from Opie Oils which came within 2 days.

Last night after work I drained the oil AGAIN and replaced the washer, refilled the oil and ran the engine, all looked ok and I didn't want to 'murder' the thing up tight but this morning there was the slightest hint of seepage so I might give it a tiny bit more torque later and that should be that.

The lesson in this case being if its an aluminium washer then throw away and renew everytime.

I don't know why the Citroen and Volvo are different but I definitely didn't replace the washers on either of them before and have had no leaks at all.

[steve_earwig]

The yoyo has an ally sump drain plug thingy washer too.

Seems like complete wank to me, so for the last service I was looking for a size recommendation to replace it with a proppa coppa one. Whilst researching I chanced upon a youtoob recording of a chap in the colonies replacing his with copper, glancing down the comments my eyes fell upon a comment from a Toyota mechanic who said you don't know what the torque should be so there's a chance you'll damage the sump and, anyway, these things are pennies, why are you bothering?

So anyway yes, if it's copper you can use it again, if it's ally it goes in the bin.

[PeterN]

I have a stock of copper ones in both sizes, bought them from ebay for not much money some years ago but have used very few, if you tighten them sensibly you can use them several times. Don't know about torque, I just tighten them until they feel about right.

Peter

[Welly]

Me too, I just do them up by 'feel'.

[piglet]

I have a stock of copper ones in both sizes, bought them from ebay for not much money some years ago but have used very few, if you tighten them sensibly you can use them several times. Don't know about torque, I just tighten them until they feel about right.

Peter

Mee too

I changed a leaking copper one once by sticking my thumb over the hole and changing it with the other hand. Lost surprisingly little.

[PeterN]

If you cant stop one leaking, unscrew it a couple of turns and wrap some PTFE tape round it, worked for me. My first 406 had the thread in the sump stripped, again, wrapped PTFE tape round the thread, did that every oil change for about 80k miles, no problems.

Peter

[Bailes1992]

I often heat up copper washers and let them cool before reusing them. Only if I need to however, I have a box of copper washers in the garage which always comes in handy.

[jasper5]

The latest sump washers have a rubber ring inside them for sealing.

I always smear a little instant gasket onto the washer, never get leaks.

[Welly]

The latest sump washers have a rubber ring inside them for sealing.

I always smear a little instant gasket onto the washer, never get leaks.

I have seen these, apparently a genuine Renner sump washer does have a rubber seal. Will get one next time.

Temporarily and without wanting to murder the thing up I smeared some 300degC mastic around it which has held up lovely.

[Welly]

More washer woes....

Armed with my stock of Renner Dealer copper washers, the recent oil change with new washer produced a slight weep again

Yesterday I drained the oil out and noticed some surface corrosion around the sump 'hole' so cleaned that up real good with some wet-n-dry paper thinking I'd get the best seal with a clean surface, I also noticed this area of the sump was slightly 'dented' and wondered if the sump nut had been struck by something before our ownership and sure enough the old copper washer was deformed and not completely flat as you'd expect. I had that feeling now this was going to be an ongoing challenge - trying to seal against a 'face' that wasn't flat.

Being dead clever and that I pondered if the copper washer has to be fitted a certain way around (there's a rounded edge and a folded-seam edge to the washer). So out came my last-but-one copper washer but this time fitted the other way round to test my theory....

Nipped the stupid 'recessed square key' sump nut to a comfortable torque using my arm as an accurate gauge...it felt 'right'.

Went for drive....all good....no weepage.

Did some other jobs and went stuck my head back under the car for a confident check.....DAMN....a single drip of oil ready to drip down

Man logic told me to 'nip' the sump nut a bit more...got a surprising turn on it without too much force...10 mins later it's leaking worse.....nipped a bit more and it slowed but still a tiny weep. Now I knew the copper washer was mullered

I've now ordered some 'Blueprint' aluminium washers with an integral rubber sealing ring as I had heard once that Renner use these. I pray that these work, I can't stand oil leaks.....will try again next weekend.

This is also getting expensive as I'd managed to unload a whole 500ml can of Brake Cleaner in cleaning-up and dissolving oil spots on me light coloured block-pavers.

[steve_earwig]

Oh lordy And to fit the new washer you'll have to drain the oil again I guess you don't possess a torque wrench? It sounds to me like what you did there is exactly what I'd have done though, mind I've not changed oil for a long time (not since the D9) so maybe these modern washers are far more fragile.

If all else fails invest in some RTV and one of those oil extractor pump things. And an undertray...

[Welly]

To be honest I drained the oil into a 'very clean' container and re-used it

I do have a Torque Wrench, the sump nut is supposed to be 35NM or thereabouts. Trouble is trying to frig up a socket to fit the stupid square-shaft key thing for the sump nut. Yesterday I used a small ring-spanner, not ideal.

Might go see if there's such a socket/square shaft thing available.....

Just ordered one on Amazon! 1/2" drive and reversible 8mm/10mm square key for the sump nut. £6.58 delivered.

[steve_earwig]

35Nm comes out at 25.8lbffffft whatevers, that's on the scale of a normal torque wrench, so it's hardly nothing and I doubt you could put more than that on with an ickle ring spanner (unless you're reefing on it like a loon)

[Welly]

Round Two

Got me special aluminium washer mit rubber o-ring liner from that Germany.

Drained Oil again.

Fit washer (or Voscher) and 'nip' with proper 1/2" socket/8mm square key combo.

Google "Renner sump plug torques" again.

Get lots of varying figures but pick 25NM.

Go to torque wrench....'starts' at 28NM. Bumhats.

Goes for 28-ish and wangs the sump plug.......get satisfying "click" a bit sooner than expected so wangs again and gets slight more turnage and clickage.

Run engine to heat, go drive, return, slight weep but nowhere near as bad as copper washer.

Grabs normal socket drive and use 'arm torque' setting and nip up to a comfortable "feels right".

Still a tiny tiny weepage.

As per that excellent Jasper on here I remembered I'd omitted to smear a bit of Instant Gasket (previously ordered and arrived the day before ).

Next step I might clean the outside around the washer real good then quickly smear said Instant Gasket around and see if that does it. CBA to drain the oil again.

Oh and another 500ml can of Brake Cleaner got discharged in cleaning up and that.

[steve_earwig]

I don't think it'll stick to anything if it's all oily. Probably best to suffer it, shove something under it to catch the drips, keep an eye on it and then shove some goop in it at the next oil change.