Info on Adding Turbo to 406 ST 2.0 16v XU10J4R Petrol

[k3nny]

And as for the lowering of compression, he could use the std ratio for a low boost application, a small T2 - T25 turbo and a maximum of say 5 p.s.i boost would be suffient to give him that extra low end power band that he wants.. controlled and thermally managed properly and there would be no problems...

But we all know when you have a turbo, its never enough and you always have to try and squeeze an extra couple of horses out of the block...

i know little about turbo application based on magazine explanations and all.

so basically, i just get a T2 Turbo kit look for the best euro tuner down here then set them on a low boost right?

do you have any idea how much it will cost? honestly i only have around US$800 (i don't know how much in pound) budget for engine upgrades. the rest is for wheels, ice etc.

if my budget is too low, do you think NA tuning should help me?

thanks again mate!

[Malachy]

a turbo conversion on your current engine WILL cost you more than just buying an 8v turbo unless you go hunting scrapyards and are handy with a welder to make up a manifold. You can pick up an 8v turbo engine with loom + ancilleries for less than ?300 ideally you would need to mate it to a turbo box although these can be rare so again go down ya scrappy, grab the nearest Peugeot/citroen xu engine diesel engine steal the flywheel + clutch + gearbox this will take the torque the turbo engine throws out with no problems.
i got my 8v turbo engine for my 306 for ?250 with saab 9000 intercooler loom, manifolds , ecu , i am still in process of fitting it though needing to fabricate a mount for the fmic.

you may be able to do the turbo conversion on cheap for your engine, get hold of a TD04 / t25 turbo for circa ?100 a cosworth/saab intercooler for about ?50 then you will need a manifold making or modifying, what i would mostlikely do would be to get the 8v turbo manifold and a second 16v manifold , cut the 8v flange off and get the 16v one welded in, will be a Pain in the ass to do but could be done for relativly cheap i guess. you may need to modify the 8v manifold to accept the turbo too since pug use a silly turbo mount :/

[Foxy]

Where do you live?

8v turbo engines in decent nick usually go for around ?3-400. Its the gearboxes that are hard to come by.
Like malachy said, the way the XU engines sit at 30 degrees in the engine bay means almost no room at all for any sort of turbo without modifying the firewall/bulkhead and thats when it starts getting expensive. A manifold suitable for a turbo on a XU10J4 engine would probably cost more to make that buying an entire turbo engine!

[niz406]

I've got an easier more cost effective method for you... Get a diesel gearbox and either mate it to your block or strip both boxes down and remanufacture your box to include the diesel components and gear ratios!

Then strip your car down, remove all electrics, electric windows, the rear seats, carpet, spare wheel/tool kit, you will need to keep your air con if you have it in your country lol

Lighten your car, change your ratio's and drive it like you stole it....lol

[Foxy]

You didnt need to say that 5 times!

[niz406]

What can I say.... I'm a post-whore lol

Its that darn debug mode error.... does it to me too often ! !

[k3nny]

Where do you live?

8v turbo engines in decent nick usually go for around ?3-400. Its the gearboxes that are hard to come by.
Like malachy said, the way the XU engines sit at 30 degrees in the engine bay means almost no room at all for any sort of turbo without modifying the firewall/bulkhead and thats when it starts getting expensive. A manifold suitable for a turbo on a XU10J4 engine would probably cost more to make that buying an entire turbo engine!

Here's the thing,

i can see the trouble rely on my basic engine, uhmm ... i've seen an article about a 2.0L turbo that can top up 190 hp (i think it's no poet's pug). does his car has the basic engine as mine? or it's a totally different one?

i lived in jakarta, but i often goes to australia for school n business stuff. so i don't think it would be that easy to get a 8v turbo engines down here. altough i can try to import it from oz but it would cost me more.

[k3nny]

Reply : Niz & Malachy

for intercoolers, manifolds and welding can easily be found around here. the issue is with the turbo and ecu.

the first time i post this topic is basically to focus on pre-installation and post installation issue.

i understand by adding turbo to the engine, basically we throw a massive cool air into the engine by then the engine needs more fuel to burn.
fuel injection is controlled by ecu right? (help me out here, i'm still green on this .. hehe). won't it disturb the ecu? is that the reason why i need to re-set my ecu or replace it with a 'better' ones?

as far as i can see, malachy's idea should get me an idea where to start. get a t25, an intercooler, manifold (modified). then i should talk to a few more person about the impact on ECU.

like i said, i don't expect much high end torque but more suitable for my driving environment.

thanks guys, it's hopeless to find infos like this downhere.

cheerz!

[k3nny]

Hey hey, ....

i just got an info from a dealer nearby, for a euro tuner package. check this out and tell me about what you guys think.

4cyl Header Metallic Ceramic Coating (US$ 205)
Turbocharger Alloy Intake Scroll (US$ 45)
4cyl Manifolds Single or Dual (US$ 295)

here's the turbo list

t25 Small Turbocharger (US$ 165)
T3 Medium Turbocharger (US$ 205)
T4 Large Turbocharger (US$ 245)
Wastegates (US$ 135)

they got pistons, valve springs, rocker shafts, oil pumps and all included on the deal as well. i need to check them out tommorow.

anything else i should check on? hehehe.

if you guys think that's a good deal, i should get started as soon as possible. i can't stand the pain each time a bloke try to squeeze into my line on the road, the car is really hard to drive under heavy traffic.

[Malachy]

seems very cheap incredibly cheap if you ask me.
forged pistons are ?400 ($650) to ?600 ($900) alone.
you wont need a "big" turbo only a t25 or a td04 from an impreza/evo at max (tbh the td04 is the most balenced turbo fro a 2litre engine ever),
ecu wize you could go for a whoel new system this will cover all future mods for later on. something like an 'Emerald' or 'megasquirt' system i am looking at putting megasquirt on mine (already have the ecu) dont forget to budget pipework into this, i am paying in region of ?200 to get the pipework for my conversion (stainless/silicone turbo pipes for airfilter>turbo, turbo > FMIC, FMIC>throttle body)
can you get a turbo cheaper than that from ebay or the like? the other expensive part will be the manifold i Turbo tecnics used to make 8v manifolds with a standard turbo fitment these cost in region of ?300 but allows you to use alot more turbos since pug use a non standad turbo fitment.
i would still be tempted to just transplant to an 8v turbo, its your choice though

[k3nny]

wait ...

hehehe, i was wrong. the cost showed me the price to coat each parts shown with high temperature metallic ceramic coating.

the turbo offers for (just the turbo)

t25 = US$ 599 (?360)
t25BB = US$ 699 (?420)

hehehe, i'm really considering your idea. but like i said before, there's no way i can find 8v turbo down here.

people down here only imports lotsa japanese cars n less euro cars. this is my first euro car and i believe you europeans know how to make a comfortable ride. hehehe.

Malachy, you seem to be doing much on your ride. could you tell me roughly how much in total spent to put a turbo conversion on you 8v?
i mean the whole project, how much it cost?

i should rethink about this, either NA Tuning or Turbo application for budget consideration. if the gap is not too far from my budget i should be able to add a bit more (cut off my porn collection i guess huahaha!.)

[Malachy]

car cost ?3500,
engine + intercooler + loom + ecu ?250

stainless steal exhaust system ?300
decat = half an hour with angle grinder + welder, cut cat box apart removed internals and rewelded up.

i do all my labour myself, do not trust garages after seeing much shoddy workmanship, i have acess to mills,lathes, grinders, basically any workshop machinery i need, own my own tig/arc welder and engine crane havee my own compressor and spraying facilitys

however it will cost me a bit more yet as i need to plumb in my intercooler etc i am guessing for the pipework it will be between ?100 and ?200 or good quality stuff although thinking of buying some stainless tube and using mandrel bender at work to fabricate my own.
i am not in a rush doing this as i live 2 miles from workso can walk.ride my mtn bike so transport for me is not essential i would rather do a quality job ialso need to get hold of a diesel clutch and flywheel a new clutch is ?60 from eurocarparts and flywheel i can get a lightened one from Hiflowheads for ?55.
That is all that is needed to get my 306 running on turbo power, however thats when the fun begins, i will be locating some forged pistons (proberly from a c20let) a 3 bar map sensor and a new loom for my megasquirt ecu. then we will have a play would hope to see about 230 bhp at least at the flywheel with circa 200Ft/lbs torque

[Foxy]

I cant see the pistons from a C20LET fitting as the XU10 has a longer stroke than the C20XE/LET.

Id like a lightened flywheel also, for that price it seems like a good deal. Got a link?

[Malachy]

bore and stroke on a c20let is 86mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine

which is exactly the same as the xu10 series


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_XU_engine

all you need to do is get the con rods modified (re bushed), stock c20 let pistons are forged from factory so will take 350bhp or so with no probs

as for the flywheel

http://www.hiflowheads.co.uk/ click products, engine rebuild componants, 406 2l turbo, its listed under competition parts.

i also forgot to say since i hope to be going over 200bhp it is likely that i will need to upgrade injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator too also the cam will need upgrading since the XU10J2te is known to have a lazier cam than a mexican janitor so will definatly restrict power later on

also be carefull for some prices from hiflow heads, an example could be the longstroke crank to take the engine to 2092cc, all this is is a xu9 crank and they want ?300 for it ok so it will be refurbed etc etc but is it really worth ?300
and the knife edge balenced crank is just a crank from a 306 s16.

I think hiflow offer some great things but in 306 circles again they have been shunne dby many people spending ?400 to have the head ported polished and you will get x amount of power to find out when they get to a RR day nothing has changed (mainly due to the XU10J4RS head being awesome anyway)

[Foxy]

I thought the XU10 had a 82mm bore, my bad.

Looks like you are going to alot of trouble here, why not try sticking the C20 LET in the 306, its been done before, I know the guy who built it and he would be more than willing to help.