DIY diesel injector cleaning?

[philg]

Do you think dismantling the bosch injectors (from my 306 dturbo (xud9te)) and leaving them to bathe overnight in petrol or maybe vinegar would clean them up any?

Has anyone done this before?

Having wile problems with my car now, very smokey startup that doesnt clear until the car starts driving, and now struggling ALOT to start. Turns over but takes a long while to splutter to life.

All new BERU glowplugs too, and no air in the fuel pipes. This is the third feckin engine in this car too lol, first engine the pre-combustion chamber fell outta the head and took a chunk outta the piston, second engine blew piston rings, then i fitted this engine over christmas.

[mark21TD]

Theres only one way to clean injectors and thats send them to a diesel specalist, they will also check the pop presures as well.
As for your starting isues it sounds like a glow plug problem.
have you tested the volts at the glow plugs ?
is the pre-heat relay working ?
How long does it take for the glow plug light to go out, it should be about 7 to 10 secs, if its only 2 or 3 then you have a problem somewhere.

[jasper5]

My preferred method of diesel injector cleaning, is to empty the fuel filter housing, fit a new filter, then fill up the housing with injection cleaner, I use Wynns injection cleaner, bleed up the system, then run the car on the road giving it some revs.

I agree about checking the glow plug system, those Beru plugs are not very good quality, I use NGK in those engines, they do not like cheap glow plugs, they burn out very quickly.

I would put a test lamp to the earth lead, then switch on the ignition, put the other lead onto any wire going to the plugs, it should light up for 10 seconds or so, if that works, then test each plug in turn by taking off the wires, then fit the test lamp to positive terminal on the battery and putting the other wire onto the contact on the top of each plug, they will light the lamp if they are working.

[philg]

Glow plugs all work, and im pretty sure the relay is too as i bypassed it altogether by running a wire straight from the battery to the plugs and then tried starting, and it was no different.
BERU plugs are flippin dear, im pretty sure they are Peugeots OEM choice of plug.
Tried some injector cleaner already.


But now i have the injectors dismantled, cleaned with wd40, and are currently steeping in injector cleaner. Then i'll wipe with diesel and rebuild them.

Not sure if this will make any difference though, as i fitted lucas injectors to the engine last night and she's running the same....struggling to start for the 1st time if i leave her a few hours, and plenty of smoke.

[jasper5]

Have you checked the turbo pipes for splitting?

Does yours have an air flow meter?

Seems like it aint the injectors if you have fitted others and the fault is still there.

Maybe you could look here if you don't get anywhere at all.....www.ilexa.co.uk this is a very good diagnostic forum with trade specialists in it.

Click on technical forum. I use this forum and am a member.

[Longintooth]

Hi
If you have smoke problems on load (dark grey/black) the most probable cause is injectors and if so you cannot service them any other way than with specialised
injection equipment. The reason is that the needle and seat are worn and not seating properly this leads to the next phase where the tiny holes that the diesel is injected through start to clog up very quickly. If the fuel does not atomise it will not burn fully and you get the black smoke which is unburned fuel. To a lesser extent low compressions can cause a similar symptom but is often associated with blue smoke which is the engine oil being burned through worn bores etc. In a pump room they can assemble the injectors on a rig and measure the discharge in cc per min and check the spray pattern. This service is useful if you want to just be sure before committing to changing the injectors and they will not charge you a fortune for the test. If they are ok you can then go on to check other things. If you tamper with them you may induce a problem that was not there since you cannot adjust the needle pressure without a High pressure gauge. Absolutely no additives can rectify this and I have been working on commercial vehicle for 30 years including pump room experience. Diesel fuel itself is the best cleaner you will ever find - better than WD 40 for mechanical cleaning.
John

[jasper5]

If diesel is the best cleaner, why do the holes that the diesel is injected through get clogged up?

There are some very good injection cleaning additives on the market, I've taken cars for mot with very poor emmision readings, changed the filter and filled the housing with injection cleaner, then taken it back for retest, passing the test with flying colours.

It's just a cleaner, not a solution to faulty injectors.

Before I went into business, I was Foreman mechanic in a diesel, auto electrical, and Peugeot dealership.We had a pump room there, so I know exactly what you are talking about with injector servicing, but time has moved on since then.

[Longintooth]

Hi

If diesel is the best cleaner, why do the holes that the diesel is injected through get clogged up?

The holes get blocked when the needle and seat get worn to the point where when the critical crack point of the injection pressure starts to widen and then the pray pattern starts to blur and then dribble more. This causes the excess fuel around the tip to form a soot as part of the residue that you see coming out of the exhaust instead of burning fully. This then carbonizes into the bore of the tiny hole, initially part blocking then fully (This is the final phase of failure the worn seat causes most of the smoking). Fortunately there are more than one spray holes so the process of complete failure is gradual. Many have tried to clear the holes using pricks ( Pardon the pun) but it will not make good the seat wear.
Needle and seats are ground, Lapped and honed to a precision level using precision equipment then assembled on a rig to precisely measure the opening pressure and is adjusted by tightening a spring situated above the needle, one of the tests we do is to put a piece of litmus on the tip just after crack point to measure the diameter of the drip - should be undetectable on a new or reconditioned one, . If you ever get the chance to see all this done you will see how fine the spray is and it emits a buzz just at the critical opening point. We have often been amazed that a spray hole could get blocked in the first place knowing how much pressure is at the tip, but it does. Even with the latest blisteringly high (2500 bar) stepped pressure injectors it will occur with wear.
Diesel fuel has amazing properties and as I said is a great freeing agent for rusted nuts and bolts one of the reasons why diesels run so clean (Don't be fooled by the colour of the engine oil) - try it and you will see.
Hope you have learned something.
Kind regards
John

[Longintooth]

Oh - I forgot to add that they also get blocked when tiny grains of grit get in through poor service cleanliness - the most common cause. The needle pounds the grit - which could be granite particles and quickly knackers the seat up even if it does not immediately block the holes. Another issue is water which corrodes the seat and leads to premature failure. There was a phase where some bright spark decided to inject water into diesel fuel to increase the oxygen in the burn but the consequences of corrosion were to high. Here is a list of possible causes of smoke problems on a diesel in order - INJECTORS,INJECTORS,INJECTORS, INJECTORS, pump.

Filling a filter bowl with additive cleaner does not add up since the fuel is recirculated back to the tank continuously so most of it would be diluted instantly and only a tiny amount would reach the parts intended even if it were true unless you mean literally filling it - I'd like to see the smoke that would throw out of the tail pipe before it cleared and goodbye CAT.

Kindest regards
John

[jasper5]

[quote Here is a list of possible causes of smoke problems on a diesel in order - INJECTORS,INJECTORS,INJECTORS, INJECTORS, pump.

Filling a filter bowl with additive cleaner does not add up since the fuel is recirculated back to the tank continuously so most of it would be diluted instantly and only a tiny amount would reach the parts intended even if it were true unless you mean literally filling it - I'd like to see the smoke that would throw out of the tail pipe before it cleared and goodbye CAT.

Kindest regards
John[/quote]


The last few vehicles that I have repaired with smoke coming out of the exhaust have been caused by.....

1) Faulty Airflow meter (MAF sensor).
2) Broken rubber turbo pipe under the radiator ( Peugeot Expert HDI).
3) Loose jubilee clip on the intercooler pipe going to the turbo.( Land Rover Freelander)
4) Faulty air flow meter.
5) Ford Focus tdci rubber pipe on top of the engine going to the turbo, split.

The injection cleaner fitted in the filter housing goes straight to the pump and therefore straight into the injectors.


This is my last word on the subject. i'm not getting involved in this silly nonsense any more.

[Longintooth]

Hi
Philg .. Jasper is absolutely correct and I saved the last parts of the list for him.. I did not want him throwing his dummy out the pram