Clutch Change-How-To.

[mjb]

Erk! I've just been looking through last night's photos (I've got hundreds from this job!!!) and I've noticed that the bolts holding the clutch plate to the flywheel are ALLEN bolts! Servicebox lists them as "8x125-16". Does that mean I need an 8mm allen socket, or is this another case where the numbers mean nothing?

[jasper5]

There are so many different types of cars and gearboxes, the basic principal is what I wrote about, I didn't write a "how-to for any specific car.

The basics are...remove all bolts holding gearbox in, remove suspension to allow removal of driveshafts, if subframe is in the way, remove it, remove mountings and starter motor etc.

Some become a nightmare like yours, others are easy, i've done a large range of clutch jobs over the years, in fact, my very first job on my first day as an apprentice in 1970 was to help change a clutch on a Wartburg 2 stroke of all things....we removed the engine.

I would have have helped you out if I could, but i've been on holiday. Also, now you know why I don't do clutch jobs any more....given my health situation...unless they are the "easy" ones.

To get the gearbox back in still relies on lining up the clutch correctly and using the jack to slide the box back in, a helper is needed to do one of these on the floor going off what I read above.

Reading about your trials with removing the suspension ball joints, I've written about this before (part of my silly rant before I went on holiday about being ignored), the best way of removing the shock absorber/strut is to remove the bolt at the bottom of the strut and knock the hub carrier down pulling the strut out of the hub carrier, not the ball joint nut and ball joint, but it's a good idea to remove the big driveshaft nut first, if you are only removing the strut, you have to watch that you don't pull the driveshaft out of the gearbox and therefore lose oil.

You are a very brave man to have attempted this job and I salute you and wish you good luck with the rest of it.

If my how-to led you to think it was an easy job then I apologise, but I suspect you knew it wouldn't be easy.

[mjb]

To get the gearbox back in still relies on lining up the clutch correctly and using the jack to slide the box back in, a helper is needed to do one of these on the floor going off what I read above.

Yer not kidding I'm still stuck trying to think of how to get the box back in. Can't remember what I wrote last night, but to sum it up it needs about 4" of room in the engine bay but there's only 2" to play with with the engine dropped right down, and the gearbox mount (one bolt for which can't be turned with the box in the engine bay) stops the box from being put in at an angle

You are a very brave man to have attempted this job and I salute you and wish you good luck with the rest of it.

If my how-to led you to think it was an easy job then I apologise, but I suspect you knew it wouldn't be easy.

Thanks. I didn't expect it to be easy, but this car's put up nothing but a fight at every opportunity. Things would have been a hell of a lot easier if I'd dropped the subframe at the beginning too I didn't realise just how heavy the gearbox was going to be either

Fear and uncertainty have been my biggest enemies on this. Knowing nothing about suspension and the subframe, and being scared of touching them has led to mucho pain, but as I've said, it's been a very educational journey so far

[mjb]

Just a little work today because I'm knackered from yesterday's ordeal

I've been to Halfords (2 hours walking from work!) and acquired some zinc primer, some "Peugeot Metallic Silver" paint, a can of Gunk Engine Degreaser, a couple of cans of brake cleaner, a couple of new small wire brushes, a T50 torx socket (for the under-bonnet anti-roll bar so I can change the rear sparks) and an 8mm allen socket which I hope will fit the flywheel/clutch bolts. Hmm best test that one before I go to bed!

Given the weld job a couple of coats of zinc primer (I hope the zinc aspect works like galvanising!) and a couple of coats of the metallic silver paint which is a shockingly good match for Satellite Grey (Thallium Gris), at least under the wheelarch without the clear finishing coats.

Given the gearbox a bit of a clean too, the inside of the bell housing with carb cleaner and the outside of the casing (or at least the top and sides) with the degreaser being careful to keep it away from anything that goes inside the box. Should be easier to manoeuvre if I can get a grip on the thing. I'm not being vain at all... ooooh no

Then I got a stonking headache from the various fumes and called it a day

I'm starting to think I should get one of these: http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... ox-support to help me get the box back in. Seems there's a largish hole in a protruding chunk of metal on top of the gearbox, slightly off-centre towards the diff that I've been informed is above the centre of gravity when aligned, so is where you *should* lift the thing. It's expensive though, but if I have to do it solo then it's probably going to be my only option

[jasper5]

Don't forget to check that the clutch spinner plate fits easily onto the splines of the gearbox shaft before you fit it on the engine and tie back the clutch operating fork so you don't disturb the bearing as you try to fit the box in, also try your best not to hit the fingers of the pressure plate as you try to fit the shaft to the clutch.

Maybe you could rig up a block of wood across the engine bay and get a rope of some sort to go round the wood and onto the gearbox to lift it at the diff end when you jack up the box, then tie it to keep the diff side up and in line or even 2 blocks to go either side of the box to support the box after you jack it up bit by bit, tieing it up as you go.

[mjb]

tie back the clutch operating fork so you don't disturb the bearing as you try to fit the box in

I've got to find out if I need new fork bearings first... There's a very gritty feeling to the fork, as there was on the clutch pedal. Got to find out if it's just a buildup of friction material or if it's shot. Please god let it be cleanable, it's killing me to be without a car, I can't wait for the dealers to order more new bits. Oh yeah, I bought a puncture repair kit for my pushbike while I was at Halfords... best get a move on and use it so I don't suffer at the hands of public transport again

Maybe you could rig up a block of wood across the engine bay and get a rope of some sort to go round the wood and onto the gearbox to lift it at the diff end when you jack up the box, then tie it to keep the diff side up and in line or even 2 blocks to go either side of the box to support the box after you jack it up bit by bit, tieing it up as you go.

Hmm not sure about tieing/tying (what IS the correct spelling there? my spellchecker says the latter but I'm not sure!) as my knots suck, but hopefully I can come up with something along those lines. Cheers for the idea

2"x2"x6' lump of wood, rope-sized hole through it about 1/3 the way down, rope through, knot+glue it, twist the wood to raise/lower. Holes through the wood at the ends, thick dowel through the holes to stop it turning involuntarily?

[DaiRees]

2"x2"x6' lump of wood, rope-sized hole through it about 1/3 the way down, rope through, knot+glue it, twist the wood to raise/lower. Holes through the wood at the ends, thick dowel through the holes to stop it turning involuntarily?

Are you sure you didn't used to design medieval weapons for a hobby? Bet you know how to build a trebuchet too

[mjb]

Are you sure you didn't used to design medieval weapons for a hobby? Bet you know how to build a trebuchet too

Trebuchets are relatively easy, they're essentially just a long arm, a hinge and a frame. A catapult would be harder to make I think as you'd need to use wood bending as an elastic mechanism instead of a few nice handy car suspension springs, and then have it not destroy itself... Yeah that'd be a better challenge

[steve_earwig]

Depends how big you want your treb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wVADKznOhY

I want one. Oh yes, definitely, I want one. For flinging Yugos and other annoying objects. Imagine one big enough to chuck a tractor! Oh yes, it will be mine mwahahahahahahaha!!! Hello Mr Policeman, just park your car over there...

[Doggy]

I've got a bad feeling about how this could develop......

[teamster1975]

I've got a bad feeling about how this could develop......

Just so long as Matt's coop doesn't end up in one!

I'm reading this thread with trepidation Matt, I won't be doing the tubby's clutch solo!!!

[mjb]

haha Matt it's easy when you know how (except for the trying to manage 2000 tons of gearbox on your own...)

I think if I were to restart the job now, the subframe mount captive nut didn't spin, and I had one of those support bars, I could probably do the job solo in a (long) day

Thing is I've been playing about a lot too - wire brushing loads of bolts, cleaning stuff up, painting bits (the gear linkage mount was covered in white corrosion, which seems to be quite toxic ), working out how stuff works, playing "hunt the starter motor", etc.

I spent a load of time ripping (literally) the cruise control stuff out today as well. From the looks of things, the pump's burnt out and somebody's had a look at it in the past and decided to leave it. Think what I'll do is wrap up the connectors in a bag with a sachet of silica gel and tie them up to the loom. When I come to fix it I'll get a new bag from ebay or a breaker and extend the cables into the wheelarch and mount it there, unless the zips on the new bag work, in which case I may attempt to re-mount the bag by feel now I know how it's fitted (2x 10mm nuts, one is shared with a clutch pipe clip

Also, despite what I said before, the clutch is held to the flywheel using T40 torx bolts, not allen. D'oh! I need to get to eurocarparts tomorrow anyway as I'm out of latex gloves (got through 100 already )... Going to see if I can borrow someone's car at lunchtime as I'm too saddle sore to ride my bike in again despite it being twice as quick and infinitely more reliable than public transport (despite having a shot rear wheel bearing, worn rear tyre, shot crank bearing, shot pedal bearings, loose front suspension forks... ) hey it's in better condition than public transport too!!!

[mjb]

hmm. clutch removed (not easy, add a proper fixed, not a bit+holder T40 socket to the shopping list, and a pry bar better than my trusty big screwdriver) and there's a lot more friction material left than I imagined. Seems to me it may have been slipping due to contamination - there was a lot of gunk around the bell housing, especially near the starter

Gearbox cleaned up too, including the release fork, which got taken out, cleaned and lubed with a dab of "normal"(?) lithium-based grease. Now the crunchiness is gone. I do however suspect I may have just made my clutch substantially lighter

The wonderful jasper5 is coming around tomorrow to help me refit the gearbox so I'm leaving the new clutch off so he can have a look at my flywheel, which looks oily, despite going several rounds with brake cleaner and some evil degreaser I dunno if it's a natural characteristic of the material or something bad so I'll rely on his expertise here I think He may well also tell me I'm talking utter poo about it looking contaminated and there's really no friction material left at all

Got a few drips of oil from the back of the sump, presumably as a result of the engine being supported by it for the last week. Guess that may end up another one for the todo list, but I'll wait until this job's over and I see an oil patch on my slabbed driveway first

[mjb]

AHA! I've been staring at the photos for long enough and I think I've FINALLY figured out how the clutch mechanism works in this car!

In normal operation, the fingers push the attached solid disc onto the friction plate, which gets sandwiched onto the flywheel, so everything's under pressure

When the pedal's pressed, the fork pulls the release bearing out, which relieves pressure on the friction plate, which is free to spin with the gearbox, not the flywheel

I was under the incorrect impressions that A) the release bearing acted on the friction plate and B) the solid disc doesn't move relative to the outside bit, so it was confusing me how it could possibly work when the slave cylinder causes the fork to pull instead of push

[teamster1975]

I hope it goes well today Matt, you've got a busy day!
This will be one mother of a knowledge base article!