Is it too late to regret my HDi purchase?

[jonsowman]

Yes the estate does the immob thing if you go from key off to cranking without waiting. I always turn the key to ignition and wait a couple of seconds (usually wait for a few dash lights to go out) and then start it. Never does it.

However if it's not that, it'll be the antenna around the ignition barrel. Relatively easy fix. Since every post of mine seems to contain an SB diagram at the moment, why break the chain?

[rwb]

FWIW: I always put ignition on, let it wake up, then crank. The only time I had this problem was when the aerial was knackered.

The wait is just the habit of waiting for the glow plugs on the XUD I had before the HDi.

[Sonia406]

Thanks boys... Maybe I was just too quick off the mark to start him up then.

You know the pillar at the front of the car with the alarm speaker-y type wotsit, is that ANYTHING to do with the immoby?

Someone said about the 'slight leak' when it was absolutely peeing it down (liar liar, bum is on fire) I know from the lovely lad here whose video I watched some months ago what I have to do to unblock the sunroof drains.
My question is would that have anything to do with the immoby?

P.s Know the alarm works well on him

[Sonia406]

Yes the estate does the immob thing if you go from key off to cranking without waiting. I always turn the key to ignition and wait a couple of seconds (usually wait for a few dash lights to go out) and then start it. Never does it.

However if it's not that, it'll be the antenna around the ignition barrel. Relatively easy fix. Since every post of mine seems to contain an SB diagram at the moment, why break the chain?

Thanks for the diagram.
In my petrol I could whack the key round straight away but I wait for the glow plugs to do their thing and fire away...... How long is a suitable time to wait for the immoby to recognize itself?

In fairness, I think I had been driving before and the same fault showed its ugly face on the MFD, so the antenna is probably the best bet.......

[jonsowman]

I tend to get in the car, turn the key to ignition, put my seatbelt on and sort out the radio and climate control, then start. So, about 2-3 seconds?

Those things on the A pillars are just ultrasonic proximity sensors, only used for the alarm system, nothing to do with the immobiliser.

The immobiliser works using NFC (near field communication) with a Philips ID46 chip in the key. It has an area of internal memory that is "write-once". When the key is programmed, a code is written to the device by the car that is subsequently matched against a code in the BSI before the car is allowed to start. If the antenna (or its connection) is faulty, the ID46 can't be read and start authorisation will fail (and you get a MFD message and a dash light).

Out of interest, the "write once" thing is the reason you can't programme a second hand key to a different car. You'd have to buy a "virgin" (i.e. unused) ID46 device.

Edit: picture

[scotty73]

Haven't we had this immobiliser question before? I seem to remember saying my old xsara did this if I tried to start it a bit quick... Maybe it's that?

Or maybe he wants to go back home? he's realised he's to macho to be tagged with a stupid f*cking knickname thrown a hissy fit thinking he's really a she and wants to go back home for some sanity... or a manicure... see he's confused too.

[Sonia406]

I tend to get in the car, turn the key to ignition, put my seatbelt on and sort out the radio and climate control, then start. So, about 2-3 seconds?

Those things on the A pillars are just ultrasonic proximity sensors, only used for the alarm system, nothing to do with the immobiliser.

The immobiliser works using NFC (near field communication) with a Philips ID46 chip in the key. It has an area of internal memory that is "write-once". When the key is programmed, a code is written to the device by the car that is subsequently matched against a code in the BSI before the car is allowed to start. If the antenna (or its connection) is faulty, the ID46 can't be read and start authorisation will fail (and you get a MFD message and a dash light).

Out of interest, the "write once" thing is the reason you can't programme a second hand key to a different car. You'd have to buy a "virgin" (i.e. unused) ID46 device.

Edit: picture

Way above my head
I have been given the transponder code for the car, is this something that will need to be used if I replace the antenna?

Haven't we had this immobiliser question before? I seem to remember saying my old xsara did this if I tried to start it a bit quick... Maybe it's that?

Or maybe he wants to go back home? he's realised he's to macho to be tagged with a stupid f*cking knickname thrown a hissy fit thinking he's really a she and wants to go back home for some sanity... or a manicure... see he's confused too.

Well, I am sure it has come up whilst driving too, so I am thinking there is a definite antenna issue - will keep an eye on it.

Dirty diesel = HE is a HE, he has some torque and guts... that said Miss Pug can red line so so much easier... I miss driving that sexy cow

[jonsowman]

Way above my head
I have been given the transponder code for the car, is this something that will need to be used if I replace the antenna?

Sorry - basically, if the car can't read the transponder (thing in the picture) in the key, it won't let the car start. Then you get the faults you're seeing. Primary suspect for this is a dodgy antenna or connection.

You don't need the code to change the antenna, that's only needed for reprogramming keys (PP2000 will ask for it). However, you might find you need to reprogramme your keys at some point in this process, so it's good that you've got the code to hand.

[rwb]

^^ what he says

So if the key is write-once then is the PP2000 programming process to install inthe BSI what's the key?

Or, is it the case that a key works if and only if it's contents match what's in the BSI a priori / from manufacture?

(This is an aside to the matter in hand.)

[GingerMagic]

FWIW: I always put ignition on, let it wake up, then crank. The only time I had this problem was when the aerial was knackered.

The wait is just the habit of waiting for the glow plugs on the XUD I had before the HDi.

Me too, but as Jon says - turn ignition on then do your seatbelt, this gives the car a chance to do its proper 'self checks' before turning off some of the dashboard lights - then fire him up.

[Sonia406]

^^ what he says

So if the key is write-once then is the PP2000 programming process to install inthe BSI what's the key?

Or, is it the case that a key works if and only if it's contents match what's in the BSI a priori / from manufacture?

(This is an aside to the matter in hand.)

You two completely lost me now

[jonsowman]

^^ what he says

So if the key is write-once then is the PP2000 programming process to install inthe BSI what's the key?

Or, is it the case that a key works if and only if it's contents match what's in the BSI a priori / from manufacture?

Well, since you asked...

The key has the ID46 unit which has an ID number which is unique to each device, and a secret key, which is 48 bits and is written once and can never be modified thereafter.

On the assembly line
The BSI is told the VIN and the 4 digit security code. It uses these two bits of information to generate the secret key, which is transmitted to the ID46 and stored, and thereafter locked. The ID46 sends its ID number back to the BSI, which stores it in a list of authorised keys. The BSI also creates and stores a random 24 bit transponder password which is stored alongside the ID number in the BSI and is also transmitted and stored in the ID46.

In general usage
For start authorisation, the car transmits a "hello" to the ID46, which replies with its ID number. If this ID number matches one of the ones the BSI authorised keys list, the process continues. Otherwise, we abort due to authorisation failure.

Assuming we pass that stage, the BSI calculates and transmits a 32 bit random number and a 32 bit signature. This signature is the random number combined with the secret key in some algorithmic manner. The secret key itself is never transmitted by either party.

The ID46 then uses its secret key to verify the signature - it carries out the same algorithm on the random number using the secret key, and if the result is the signature, then the vehicle is the one we're looking for. If not, authorisation failure and the ID46 will refuse to give any information.

Now both "sides" know that they're talking to an authorised partner. The ID46 transmits a ciphered version of the transponder password, which the BSI decrypts using the secret key. If the result is a transponder password that the BSI has stored alongside the corresponding ID number, then we have an authorised vehicle start.

PP2000 reprogramming regenerates the list of authorised ID46 ID numbers that can start this vehicle. The SK cannot be overwritten, but it is the same, since it is a pure function of the VIN and the 4 digit code.

Well, you did ask...

[grasmere59]

You know the pillar at the front of the car with the alarm speaker-y type wotsit, is that ANYTHING to do with the immoby?


That thing on the pillar is the motion sensor for the alarm,if you want to lock the car without it being activated you press the button on the centre console,the one on the same switch bank as the seat heaters,i do this if I have to lock the car with the dog in it (with the windows down and not in the summer!).I often get drips of water from them if it rains really hard and i'm going round a corner.

[dirtydirtydiesel]

Or maybe he wants to go back home? he's realised he's to macho to be tagged with a stupid f*cking knickname thrown a hissy fit thinking he's really a she and wants to go back home for some sanity... or a manicure... see he's confused too. [/quote]
Well, I am sure it has come up whilst driving too, so I am thinking there is a definite antenna issue - will keep an eye on it.


Dirty diesel = HE is a HE, he has some torque and guts... that said Miss Pug can red line so so much easier... I miss driving that sexy cow [/quote]
Oi ! Leave me outa this

[rwb]

So it's a screaming queen is it?

I bet Gladys the sat-nav lady will have something to say about that! (Probably something like in 6 inches you approaching a hole.)