Timing Belts, the sleeping time bomb

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mjb
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Post by mjb »

jameslxdt wrote:a word of warning space is EXTREMLEY limited
That's the thing that's stopping me. I can honestly say I have no idea at all how to do it either since it's not covered in my (still AWOL) Haynes.

If I were to have a go, it would be on the side of a fairly busy but very narrow road with a very pronounced camber using the spare tyre and jack as very needed insurance against the car falling off the axle stands!

I guess I'd need the engine bay protective plastic bit off and have a hunt around for the bolts holding the belt cover on, praying I can find them. But again, I can truthfully say I have no idea where the tensioner lives (or what it looks like - I've only ever played with a nekkid engine once, when I was a kid) or how to change it, and also I don't actually know where the water pump is although that one I imagine would be comparatively easy

I'd really like to be able to do the job myself. Heck I'd sort a new radiator and tubing at the same time with the money I'd save - that would be perfect . I really don't want to spend £200 getting the local frog specialist to do the job, but I don't think I have the knowledge to do it, and certainly not in the middle of my street :(
richyb83
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Post by richyb83 »

Its definately a big job. All the parts are easy enough to find though. On mine (HDI) the whole lot is on the drivers side of the engine. The belts hidden by a cover and the water pump is at the very bottom. You can find the tensioners byfollowing the belt round. Finding it and getting it off should be easy enough, even getting it all back on should be ok. Doing it right and everything matching up sounds like the hard part!!! I often bite off more than I can chew which I really doubt if its a good idea to do with a timing belt. I am feeling inspired after these posts though.
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mjb
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Post by mjb »

richyb83 wrote:All the parts are easy enough to find though. ... You can find the tensioners byfollowing the belt round. Finding it and getting it off should be easy enough, even getting it all back on should be ok.
Have you seen the tight sprawl that's under the bonnet on the turbo? Apparently garages quote for a lot more labour than it takes to change the V6's belt because it's that difficult to get to :/
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Post by mjb »

OK I found my Haynes (HOORAY!!!) and in conjunction with the EPC I'm thinking this is what I need to do:

1) Take the "upper" timing belt cover off from under the bonnet
2) Jack the front drivers side up
3) Remove the splash guard, being careful about Lake Coolant (lol!).
3a) Drain the radiator, unplug, and yank out (provided I've bought a replacement by this time)
4) Take the wheel off
5) Take the plastic wheelarch liner off
6) Turn the crankshaft pulley clockwise a bit at a time using a socket on the bolt in the middle of it, until I can get a drill bit through some small hole in the camshaft gear and into the head
7) Find some way of slackening off the auxiliary belt tensioner (which may be self-tensioning according to Haynes)
8) Remove the auxiliary belt
9) Bribe a mate to jump in and keep pressure on the brake with it in 5th gear while I unbolt the crankshaft pulley presumably using the bolt the middle of it
10) Unbolt some "lower" timing belt cover?
11) Try to take a photo upwards so I know where the belt goes later
12) Praying the crankshaft doesn't turn cos I can't see any way to lock it, pull the belt off what I hope is number 3 in picture D8F/IF05A25A.TIF in the EPC
13) Simply pull the "tension roller" off the "screw column" (EPC lingo) and put a new one on?
14) Push a new belt on and do the reverse to get the car back together again

There's 2 glaring omissions I can see:

1) How do you adjust a tensioner which just appears to be a pulley screwed into a solid lump of metal?

2) I can't see the water pump in any of these diagrams! Waaaa!


To be honest it doesn't look that bad so far. I'm just concerned about the fact I'm still largely in the dark about what the side and underneath of the engine look like and if I'm going to have any damn room to get at the bolts securing these timing belt covers (are there really 3 of them?)


Actually here's another question - how do you jack up the front? According to Haynes you need to stick the axle stands at the jacking points, which seems like a nice way to pierce holes in the bottom of the car, and I've tried to jack it up with a trolly jack where they said (which gives you about an inch of travel on the long end of the bar), but the jack went up, the bit of metal the jack was pushing went up but the bits of metal around it didn't, neither did the car :/


If/when I do this, I'll take lots of pictures and shove 'em here like I've half done with the trip computer mod (took pictures but ain't edited/resized/documented/uploaded yet)
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Welly
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Post by Welly »

Guys, shoot me if I sound like a twat here but I know a chap at work who does his own cambelt change by carefully slitting the old belt in half along its entire length. Then push the new belt on by half a width, snip the rest of the old belt off and push the new belt fully home disturbing none of the pulleys or tensioners.

I know it's Heath Robbinson but he has done this successfully many times and I know for a fact that the last car he did it to (high mileage shitroen zantia TD) covered 40,000 miles on it's new belt and still sold it on after.

*dons flameproof overalls*
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mjb
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Post by mjb »

That was mentioned in Car Mechanic magazine not long ago. Sounded like a good idea until I started thinking about the tensioner having to be changed which would defeat the whole point I think
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Post by jameslxdt »

Welton wrote:Guys, shoot me if I sound like a twat here but I know a chap at work who does his own cambelt change by carefully slitting the old belt in half along its entire length. Then push the new belt on by half a width, snip the rest of the old belt off and push the new belt fully home disturbing none of the pulleys or tensioners.

I know it's Heath Robbinson but he has done this successfully many times and I know for a fact that the last car he did it to (high mileage shitroen zantia TD) covered 40,000 miles on it's new belt and still sold it on after.

*dons flameproof overalls*
im sorry but in my opinion this is the stupidest thing you could ever do, a cambelt is one of those jobs, like brakes, you dont take stupid shortcuts, after fitting a new belt you usually need to increase the belt tension as the new belt isnt streched like the old one, and i know on my car and the gti6 this wont work as you have to tension the whole belt by slackening the pulleys and then adjusting the tensioner, and on all the new volvo's they have temperature related variable belt tensioners which have to be set up perfectley so again this would not work
Peugeot wrote:what are you worried about? we made car that lasted 10 years"..."Zat is very goode non? :|
FAQ - 406 D8 petrol (excl. V6) running and starting problems
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jameslxdt
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Post by jameslxdt »

also you'd be fooked if you need to replace the tensioner, idler or water pump, as you would have no way of telling there condition
Peugeot wrote:what are you worried about? we made car that lasted 10 years"..."Zat is very goode non? :|
FAQ - 406 D8 petrol (excl. V6) running and starting problems
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ThePrisoner
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Post by ThePrisoner »

I was told by my dealer that the belt on my 2.0 16v petrol should be good for up to 80k.

As im only on 61500 ish, I am tempted to have the belt, pump and tensioners done as the car is still on its first belt. I know that it will last a lot longer, and after looking at the belt it looks in tip top condition, but just for peice of mind I will look at doing it sometime this year, along with the aircon service and re-gas, new front and spare tyres, £175 road tax and new drivers door actuator.

Car will fly through its MOT so I can spend the money else where!

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Post by Welly »

I wrote:shoot me if I sound like a twat here ............*dons flameproof overalls*
:lol:
james wrote:im sorry but in my opinion this is the stupidest thing you could ever do
:cry:
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Post by mjb »

ThePrisoner wrote:£175 road tax
Someone's not heard the news... :cry:
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Post by mjb »

I had a look around the engine bay of mine this morning, specifically for the purpose of checking out how much room I've got to play with*. I am now very very scared.

ONE F***ING INCH!!!!!

JUST ONE B***ARD INCH!!!!!

I can't even fit my hand into a one inch gap! How the hell am I going to do this? :/ I've been thinking about it all day and I'm really not too sure I'm going to be able to do it if I can't even fit my hand down there





* Actually I opened it up to pour another couple of pints of water into the coolant... but hey :)
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jameslxdt
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Post by jameslxdt »

mjb, just be glad its not a volvo 440, there isnt even enough room for the cambelt to fit in the space :shock:
Peugeot wrote:what are you worried about? we made car that lasted 10 years"..."Zat is very goode non? :|
FAQ - 406 D8 petrol (excl. V6) running and starting problems
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Post by crasin »

jameslxdt wrote:mjb, just be glad its not a volvo 440, there isnt even enough room for the cambelt to fit in the space :shock:
lol thats true i used have a 440turbo try doing the starter motor?!?

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Post by jameslxdt »

ah yes, thats very interesting, the non turbo is bad enough, but then the turbo is just a whole different game
also trying to disconnect the speedo cable from the instrument panel is virtually impossible, the only easy job on a 440 is the clutch
Peugeot wrote:what are you worried about? we made car that lasted 10 years"..."Zat is very goode non? :|
FAQ - 406 D8 petrol (excl. V6) running and starting problems
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