Camber out / outer edge tyre

[dirtydirtydiesel]

So, solution to camber being out...possible?

You will allways have a slight discrepancy if checked with laser alginment due to wear in bushes ect / manufacturing tolerances & maybe it's had a slight bump.
Slid into a curb in the snow ect .
Somewhere with laser alginment with a good opperater will be able to advise more on your car.
They will have programed into there data base the top & bottom limits for your car & will explane pretty much what i've said above.
If all you bushes & links ect check out ok & nothings bent then a good four wheel laser alginment sesson should sort it out
But your'll need new boots to notice it's no longer scrubing

[jasper5]

Tracking/toe is side to side (9 o clock/3o clock), camber is up/down (12 o clock/6 o clock)

There is no adjustment for side to side (9 o clock/3 o clock), only up and down (12 o clock/6 o clock).

[steve_earwig]

Not camber, so yes steve earwig & markw you are both right

Trouble is, I trust Jasper to know what he's talking about. rather than what I'm seeing on Service Box

[dirtydirtydiesel]

Tracking/toe is side to side (9 o clock/3o clock), camber is up/down (12 o clock/6 o clock)

There is no adjustment for side to side (9 o clock/3 o clock), only up and down (12 o clock/6 o clock).

Jasper, I know the differance between tracking/toe & camber, I spent 15 years racing cars & karts
I have personaly watched on the laser alginment computer screen what peramiters it adjust's when the top links are altered with the eccentric bolt's
You go on beleiving what you want

[jasper5]

No worries, I have more important things to worry about.

[gumby6371]

In an attempt to educate myself more than anything (and possibly difuse an argument) I've just dragged this from t'internet;

http://www.peugeot406coupe.nl/catalogus ... 51A65A.HTM

Assuming all 406's are basically the same set up the only pivot point I can see is item 7 Pin Ball-Joint, I can see how it can rotate to allow camber adjustment but unless its loosely fitted into the mounting point on item 2 I can't see how it can move in the direction required for toe adjustment?
Clearly it could be adjusted using an eccentric bolt set up at either end of item 3 but you would need some sort of pivot point and not rely on rubber bushes taking up the slack surely???

Notice how I avoided actually naming any parts which clearly demonstrates my level of mechanical knowledge, it is however better than the tyre place who told me there was no adjustment what so ever on the rear axle when I had new rubber fitted

[steve_earwig]

Right, I've spent an hour or so Googling and come up with... damn all definitive

On Passion there is this diagram which someone drew to demonstrate what wear in the upper arm bush was doing to their rear:

Kind of looks like toe to me

This is all Service Box has on the subject:

4.2. At the rear
N.B. : The rear axle camber cannot be adjusted.

Slacken and operate on the cam ring (3) to obtain the value wheel by wheel which corresponds to the body height H2.

There's a lot of fuss about this H2, which is the height of the rear jacking point above the ground. You're meant to use spring compressors but I remember in the old days it was putting weights into the car.

Description---------------------------saloon/ coupe------estate
H2 ( mm )-----------------------------160,0---------------180,0
Tracking by wheel ( mm ) ± 0,5-----1,5-----------------up to build code 09580 : 2,00 mm - From build code 09581 : 2,75 mm
Camber (°) ± 30'........................... - 1° 50'
Hope that looks ok.

I guess the rear suspension is sort of multi-linked, so the alignment changes as the spring is compressed & released. SO I guess that means anyone who lowers their car can expect rear tyre wear...



Not sure if any of this helps the OP, however the tyre wear should be noticeably different - if the camber is out the tyre will wear flatly towards the edge, if the toe is out the tyre will have a stepped appearance as it is pushed or pulled slightly sideways.

[markw]

No argument here, just attempting to educate myself in case I've been calling things the wrong names all these years!
To get camber adjustment, doesn't movement in the direction of the red arrows with respect to the red axis line have to take place? As both ends of the Pivot Hub are fixed by virtue of bolts 70 & 73, I don't see how that's possible.
To get toe in / toe out adjustment, movement in the direction of the blue arrow with respect to the blue axis line needs to take place. Surely this is achieved by the 'lengthening/shortening' effect of the eccentric bolt in the tracking arm (number 6) inboard fixing? ......

[mjb]

When I first got my coupé I wore through a set of new rear tyres in about 300 miles because the camber was that far out. You could lie on the floor behind the car and see that the outsides of the tyres were barely touching the floor Once another set of new tyres were fitted, the camber was set correctly by kwik-fit (who initially said the computer said it couldn't be done ) and the car didn't need to be scrapped.

Rear camber CAN be set.

My memory's very vague, but I think they actually did it by repositioning the whole arms after undoing the bolts in the centre of the car (top left of the servicebox diagram)

[dirtydirtydiesel]

No argument here, just attempting to educate myself in case I've been calling things the wrong names all these years!
To get camber adjustment, doesn't movement in the direction of the red arrows with respect to the red axis line have to take place? As both ends of the Pivot Hub are fixed by virtue of bolts 70 & 73, I don't see how that's possible.
To get toe in / toe out adjustment, movement in the direction of the blue arrow with respect to the blue axis line needs to take place. Surely this is achieved by the 'lengthening/shortening' effect of the eccentric bolt in the tracking arm (number 6) inboard fixing? ......

spot on discription & diagram Mark, no argument from me either. But as I understand it you've understood it as far as I know anyhow .
End of as far as I am conserned.

[jasper5]

No argument here, just attempting to educate myself in case I've been calling things the wrong names all these years!
To get camber adjustment, doesn't movement in the direction of the red arrows with respect to the red axis line have to take place? As both ends of the Pivot Hub are fixed by virtue of bolts 70 & 73, I don't see how that's possible.
To get toe in / toe out adjustment, movement in the direction of the blue arrow with respect to the blue axis line needs to take place. Surely this is achieved by the 'lengthening/shortening' effect of the eccentric bolt in the tracking arm (number 6) inboard fixing? ......

How can it move left and right when, as you say, it is fixed by bolt 73 and bush 7, not to mention the link 1 and bolt 70?

[steve_earwig]

I can only assume it uses the movement in the rubber bush(es) but I must admit, I have no idea how it's meant to work.

[markw]

As Steve says, it's not a metal to metal solid fixing, but metal to rubber to metal. It doesn't have to move much to allow sufficient adjustment to occur.

[Welly]

You don't use rubber bushes to adjust suspension, otherwise you'd be deforming the rubber and that's not a reliable adjustment.

[steve_earwig]

You use the upper link to adjust it, not the bushes I get what you're saying, deforming bushes seems a bit nonsensical, however they're all over the place and the bush on the bottom arm is at 45 degrees - now which way does it adjust?

More Googling (I really should be in the garden ) - http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =4&t=38756 That pic kind of looks familiar

I have been under it again this afternoon and checked but that link is the one I adjusted for camber but it is actually the tracking adjustment, its forward of the centre. It will also adjust the camber but puts the tracking miles out when you use it for that. Presumably there must be another adjustment somewhere but I can't find it.

My memory's very vague, but I think they actually did it by repositioning the whole arms after undoing the bolts in the centre of the car (top left of the servicebox diagram)

I'm coming to the conclusion the cam isn't meant to do camber, it only does it slightly because the balljoint is above the wheel centre but by the time it starts changing the camber the toe is already miles out. If the camber is still out after the toe is set then the only chance is to loosen the bolts on the lower arm, set the camber and tighten them, providing nothing's too bent.

And I still can't find that diagram